agreed.Mills had an exciting sprint finish in the 10k but so did Rupp. Flying by the Oly Champ and WR holder, K. Bekele to finsh 2nd to arguably the greatest championship distance racer of all time (i'm sure people will chime in on that note, but look at Farah's wikipedia page and notice the massive list of Gold medals)
Dennis T Reynolds wrote:
Billy Mills ahead of Galen Rupp is laughable. Give me a f*cking break, I know people hate Rupp but come on.
I have to go with Bill Rogers at the top.
Everyone can twist the stats and/or criteria to support their own list. Me? I simply like Rogers...
Billy Mills was a one hit wonder. Shouldn't even be mentioned. Comical to say so.
Frank Shorter is the greatest, raced all distances indoor outdoor cross country marathon at all levels national and international.
He studied all of the greats, adopted and bettered their training, raced them, beat most all of them, and started a revolution.
Rain wrote:
I have to go with Bill Rogers at the top.
Everyone can twist the stats and/or criteria to support their own list. Me? I simply like Rogers...
I dunno. I think Bill Rodgers had a better career than Bill Rogers.
Bill Mills
Louis Tewanima
Tom Longboat
Elison (Tarzan) Brown
get a life. Ryun....hahait's 2017 dude
Hopeful Runner wrote:
Lagat.
American born - Ryun
Old Wrestler wrote:
Thanks for all the insight Gbohannon, but by the methodology you used to eliminate runners you should then change the title of the thread to who had the best 1 race every 4 years. The title asked for Greatest American Distance Runners, you hijacked that premise and made the only standard of greatness to be Olympic medals. I realize that this will require even more work and consideration to be put into what you have already done. It will undoubtedly bring more argument, theory and conjecture also. But if you want to rank who the greatest is, you have to look at the entire body of work. Take somebody like Pre for instance, how many distances did he hold the American record at during his career? Are those accomplishment diminished because of 1 race where he did not medal? And consider all runners from all eras based on how they ran against the competition of that time. You couldn't possibly know how somebody like Galen Rupp would have run had he lived and trained 100 years ago....
I agree, Old Wrester.
I'm not sure any runner captured more lore in the modern era than Jim Ryun. The world was/is so in love with the mile, and when this kid came in and smashed records he was able to get on and stay on the covers of Sports Illustrated, The Sporting News, Track & Field News, etc. He was literally a household name for a decade.
And you can't forget Prefontaine. There's a Diamond League meet named after him. He held seven American records from the 2000 to 10,000. That's unheard of today. If someone today had all those records, Let's Run would declare him the greatest runner in American history, hands down, end of story. Pre had no Olympic glory, but he chewed up American runners for 5+ years, and he was also a household name. His death was national news. He inspired generations of runners.
I think records and how long records endure have to count as much as medals. A medal is about how good you were on a particular day. Records, though, are about being faster than anyone in history . . . either in the world or for this conversation, in the U.S.
You can't discount Olympic glory, but Billy Mills never won an outright national title. He tied with Garry Lindgren one year, but he didn't even win the U.S. trials in '64.
Anyhow, great conversation. I'm probably wrong about everything, and I'm sure someone here will tell me why.
so we all are in violent agreement that it's Mary Decker?
Clearly there are knocks against her [oly dissapointments], but everything else puts her as the pre-eminent US runner of all time:
held *all* AR's from 800 to 10,000 [less steeple]
1983 worlds 1500/3000 double gold
mile/5k/10k WR holder
17 WR's, 36 AR's
if this was a guy, everyone would be all over themselves
its also possible the 1997 doping conviction at age 37 was in fact simply birth control pills [I didnt stay at a holiday inn last night]
If you look at all track events and the marathon as equal:
1. Lagat (world titles and American records)
2. Rupp (he has a great collection of times across many events and medals)
3. Shorter (Olympic gold and silver)
4. Ryan (times and Olympic silver)
5. Rodgers (4 Bostons and 4 New York wins)
6. Mills (Olympic gold...but lacking in times and other impressive performances)
7. Centrowitz (Olympic gold, 2 World Championship medals, one of the fastest 1500's in American history)
8. Meb (Olympic silver, Boston and New York wins)
9. Jager (Olympic silver, American steeplechase record...would solidify this pot on the list with a sub 13 5000 meter performance)
10. Bob Kennedy (7:30 and 12:58 in a time when American running sucked)
11. Ritz, Webb, and Hall (They all have run fast times across varied distances, but they've never won or medaled at the Olympic/World Championship level)
GBohannon wrote:
Let's start with all of the Olympic Medalists (men only) in events ranging from 1500m on up. No medal, no consideration. Sorry Alan, Pre, Gerry, Bernie (no Oly medals for the USA), Ritz, and Craig.
(...)
1) Frank Shorter
2) Billy Mills
3) Jim Ryun
4) Galen Rupp
5) Evan Jager
6) Bob Schul
That is some good reasoning and a very good list - I would agree with that ranking!
Shorter
Mills
Rupp
Prefountaine
Scott
Ryun
sorry for the extra's
don't forget wrote:
3 pages and just one mention of a woman?
Decker
Flanagan - a few ARs, Olympic medal, World XC medal
Huddle - some great times but needs to step up at major championships to be on the list
Simpson - Olympic medal, 2x World medal
Rowbury - 1500 & 5k AR, World medal
Regina Jacobs - 1500 indoor AR (3:59.98), 97 & 99 silver WCs, and held the World IR.
GBohannon wrote:
Let's start with all of the Olympic Medalists (men only) in events ranging from 1500m on up. No medal, no consideration. Sorry Alan, Pre, Gerry, Bernie (no Oly medals for the USA), Ritz, and Craig.
1500m (gold)
James Lightbody (1904)
Mel Sheppard (1908)
Matthew Centrowitz (2016)
1500m (silver)
Arthur Blake (1896)
Frank Verner (1904)
Abel Kiviat (1912)
Glenn Cunningham (1936)
Bob McMillen (1952)
Jim Ryun (1968)
Leo Manzano (2012)
1500m (bronze)
John Bray (1900)
Lacey Hearn (1904)
Norman Taber (1912)
Lawrence Shields (1920)
3000m SC (gold)
Horace Ashenfelter (1952)
3000m SC (silver)
Patrick Flynn (1920)
Evan Jager (2016)
3000m SC (bronze)
Joe McCluskey (1932)
George Young (1968)
Brian Diemer (1984)
5000m (gold)
Bob Schul (1964)
5000m (silver)
Ralph Hill (1932)
Paul Chelimo (2016)
5000m (bronze)
Bill Dellinger (1964)
10,000m (gold)
Billy Mills (1964)
10,000m (silver)
Lewis Tewanima (1912)
Galen Rupp (2012)
Marathon (gold)
Thomas Hicks (1904)
Johnny Hayes (1908)
Frank Shorter (1972)
Marathon (silver)
Albert Corey (1904)
Frank Shorter (1976)
Meb Keflezighi (2004)
Marathon (bronze)
Arthur Newton (1904)
Joseph Forshaw (1908)
Gaston Strobino (1912)
Clarence DeMar (1924)
Galen Rupp (2016)
I personally do no feel comfortable listing anyone from pre-1960 as the best ever. That was before Bikila and the Africans really "crashed the party"... in other words, the competition was watered down back then.
That leaves us with the following 10 men:
Matthew Centrowitz - 2016 Olympic 1500m champion
Leo Manzano - 2012 Olympic 1500m silver medalist
Jim Ryun - 1968 Olympic 1500m silver medalist
Evan Jager - 2016 Olympic 3000m SC silver medalist
Bill Dellinger - 1964 Olympic 5000m bronze medalist
Bob Schul - 1964 Olympic 5000m champion
Paul Chelimo - 2016 Olympic 5000m silver medalist
Billy Mills - 1964 Olympic 10,000m champion
Galen Rupp - 2012 Olympic 10,000m silver medalist, 2016 Olympic Marathon bronze medalist
Frank Shorter - 1972 Olympic Marathon champion, 1976 Olympic Marathon silver medalist
Meb Keflezighi - 2004 Olympic Marathon bronze medalist
I personally feel that Centro, Meb, Dellinger, Chelimo, and Manzano do not belong in the convo (not yet for Chelimo, at least). So that leaves:
Ryun, Jager, Schul, Mills, Shorter, and Rupp. Jager and Rupp still have time to build their resumes. Schul doesn't strike me as an All-Time great. Injuries cut his career short and he really only had 1 good season. It happened to be an Olympic year. No gold medal hurts Jim.
1) Frank Shorter
2) Billy Mills
3) Jim Ryun
4) Galen Rupp
5) Evan Jager
6) Bob Schul
Are OLYMPIC medals really that important to not consider PR's or World championship medals?
argghdhdhfhd wrote:
If you look at all track events and the marathon as equal:
1. Lagat (world titles and American records)
2. Rupp (he has a great collection of times across many events and medals)
3. Shorter (Olympic gold and silver)
4. Ryan (times and Olympic silver)
5. Rodgers (4 Bostons and 4 New York wins)
6. Mills (Olympic gold...but lacking in times and other impressive performances)
7. Centrowitz (Olympic gold, 2 World Championship medals, one of the fastest 1500's in American history)
8. Meb (Olympic silver, Boston and New York wins)
9. Jager (Olympic silver, American steeplechase record...would solidify this pot on the list with a sub 13 5000 meter performance)
10. Bob Kennedy (7:30 and 12:58 in a time when American running sucked)
11. Ritz, Webb, and Hall (They all have run fast times across varied distances, but they've never won or medaled at the Olympic/World Championship level)
This is the most reasonable list I've seen here. Though I don't know how you could read your own justifications and somehow end up with Mills ahead of Centro.
Gbohannon wrote:
observer_of_things wrote:You left Lagat off this list
I mentioned him somewhere in that post. No Olympic medals for the US hence his exclusion. I don't count the JV Olympics (WCs).
You do not count World's? I can understand that for the marathon, but on the track you are being silly.
Elsip wrote:
argghdhdhfhd wrote:If you look at all track events and the marathon as equal:
1. Lagat (world titles and American records)
2. Rupp (he has a great collection of times across many events and medals)
3. Shorter (Olympic gold and silver)
4. Ryan (times and Olympic silver)
5. Rodgers (4 Bostons and 4 New York wins)
6. Mills (Olympic gold...but lacking in times and other impressive performances)
7. Centrowitz (Olympic gold, 2 World Championship medals, one of the fastest 1500's in American history)
8. Meb (Olympic silver, Boston and New York wins)
9. Jager (Olympic silver, American steeplechase record...would solidify this pot on the list with a sub 13 5000 meter performance)
10. Bob Kennedy (7:30 and 12:58 in a time when American running sucked)
11. Ritz, Webb, and Hall (They all have run fast times across varied distances, but they've never won or medaled at the Olympic/World Championship level)
This is the most reasonable list I've seen here. Though I don't know how you could read your own justifications and somehow end up with Mills ahead of Centro.
I agree. I don't understand why Mills' one race puts him over Centro. Also putting Kennedy in front of Ritz, Webb and Hall seems a bit unfair. Ritz, for example ran faster for 5k (3rd all time), made 3 Olympic teams when it was harder to make teams, is the 3rd fastest American marathoner, and 2nd fastest half marathoner. Ritz also holds the 6th fastest 10k time. Kennedy had a 6th and 12th at the Olympics. Ritz had a 9th and a 13th. Maybe the 4 of them can share 10th.
I think Manzano deserves a spot in there too. He has Olympic silver. 10 years in a row of being top 3 int 1500 at USAs where he was competing against all-time greats like Lagat, Webb and Centro
1.)
Jason Rahm
[quote]ggfsgasdfs wrote:
you guys must be new to the sport
like
I watched 72
but watched 68
Elsip wrote:
argghdhdhfhd wrote:If you look at all track events and the marathon as equal:
1. Lagat (world titles and American records)
2. Rupp (he has a great collection of times across many events and medals)
3. Shorter (Olympic gold and silver)
4. Ryan (times and Olympic silver)
5. Rodgers (4 Bostons and 4 New York wins)
6. Mills (Olympic gold...but lacking in times and other impressive performances)
7. Centrowitz (Olympic gold, 2 World Championship medals, one of the fastest 1500's in American history)
8. Meb (Olympic silver, Boston and New York wins)
9. Jager (Olympic silver, American steeplechase record...would solidify this pot on the list with a sub 13 5000 meter performance)
10. Bob Kennedy (7:30 and 12:58 in a time when American running sucked)
11. Ritz, Webb, and Hall (They all have run fast times across varied distances, but they've never won or medaled at the Olympic/World Championship level)
This is the most reasonable list I've seen here. Though I don't know how you could read your own justifications and somehow end up with Mills ahead of Centro.
Funny, I was going to post just about the same response, except with "un" in front of "reasonable" and without the "Though."
This list provides no explanation and has people thrown about willy nilly, with occasional stats that contradict the list order.
Anyone who leaves pre off this list is a fool. Pre is the greatest american runner ever