Rob was incredibly efficient after 15 minutes of running....ie his warm up was 8 min mile pace!
After that he was a machine. Very lucky to have been hammered by him on runs 25 years ago.
Rob was incredibly efficient after 15 minutes of running....ie his warm up was 8 min mile pace!
After that he was a machine. Very lucky to have been hammered by him on runs 25 years ago.
simple reason wrote:
De Casella most likely has one foot slightly larger than the other foot or one leg slightly longer than the other leg or there is significant disparity in coordination from left side to right side of his body.
Likely just the way his legs were a bit wobbly in action. He just wasn't very well put together.
xc is not about time wrote:
Gebrselassie Farah wrote:
De Castella’s extra weight compared to other runners, he had to run with probably lead partially to the reason why he was not as fast as Lopes or Jones.
The arm action would have less of an effect in my opinion.
I believe the head to head record though between the three, Deek wins.
No. Going by Cross and Marathons Lopes and Jones were both ahead of him.
no to demigoguery wrote:
De Castella v Lopes v Jones in a marathon.
I'll take Lopes.
The man is one of the most complete runners of all time; track, XC and road.
Except when he is getting outsprinted by Deek at Rotterdam:
http://51runner.blogspot.com/2014/01/deek.html
First real try at the Marathon and that never happened again.
If you watch the "84 WCC the announcer makes a very pointed note of Lopes showing the way to Deek and it turned out that what he was hinting at was very correct later that year.
tete a tete wrote:
No. Going by Cross and Marathons Lopes and Jones were both ahead of him.
Out of the 3, Deek is the only one to have won a major global marathon world title in a non-boycotted championship. Championship record therefore goes to Deek.
Deek's hammer wrote:
tete a tete wrote:
No. Going by Cross and Marathons Lopes and Jones were both ahead of him.
Out of the 3, Deek is the only one to have won a major global marathon world title in a non-boycotted championship. Championship record therefore goes to Deek.
The boycott was meaningless to the '84 Marathon. Advantage Lopes.
Championship Schmampionship wrote:
Deek's hammer wrote:
Out of the 3, Deek is the only one to have won a major global marathon world title in a non-boycotted championship. Championship record therefore goes to Deek.
The boycott was meaningless to the '84 Marathon. Advantage Lopes.
Deek results according to his IAAF profile from 1976 to 1992:
09 AUG 1992 Barcelona Olympic Games ESPESP F 26. 2:17:44
21 APR 1991 Rotterdam Marathon NEDNED F 1. 2:09:42
16 APR 1990 Boston Marathon USAUSA F 5. 2:11:28
08 DEC 1989 Melbourne AUSAUS F 28:38.46
04 FEB 1988 Melbourne AUSAUS F F 5. 13:50.22
09 JAN 1988 Perth AUSAUS F F 1. 29:04.73
14 FEB 1988 Tokyo Marathon JPNJPN F 4. 2:08:49
02 OCT 1988 Seoul Olympic Games KORKOR F 8. 2:13:07
24 JAN 1987 Canberra AUSAUS F F 2. 8:09.3h
10 AUG 1987 Malmö SWESWE F 8. 8:00.01
22 JAN 1987 Perth AUSAUS F F 2. 13:52.60
06 MAR 1987 Canberra AUSAUS F F 1. 13:51.9h
06 AUG 1987 Stockholm SWESWE F F 3. 13:47.58
21 JUN 1987 Newcastle Half Marathon GBRGBR F F 1. 1:02:04
06 SEP 1987 Roma IAAF World Championships ITAITA OW F DNF
01 MAR 1986 Canberra AUSAUS F F 1. 13:35.50
23 MAR 1986 Neuchâtel IAAF World Cross Country Championships SUISUI GW F1 14. 36:10.9
21 APR 1986 Boston USAUSA F 1. 2:07:51
01 AUG 1986 Edinburgh Commonwealth Games GBRGBR F 1. 2:10:15
02 NOV 1986 New York USAUSA F 2. 2:11:43
LATEST
10 JUL 1985 Lausanne Athletissima SUISUI GL F 4. 28:05.23
24 MAR 1985 13th IAAF World Cross Country Championships PORPOR GW F1 20. 34:17
06 OCT 1985 Itasca USAUSA F F 34:21
25 SEP 1985 Lynchburg USAUSA F F 1. 46:52
20 OCT 1985 Chicago Marathon USAUSA F 3. 2:08:48
21 JUL 1984 Oslo NORNOR F 13. 13:44.00
25 MAR 1984 12th IAAF World Cross Country Championships USAUSA GW F1 21. 34:08
03 MAR 1984 Phoenix USAUSA F 2. 27:48
12 AUG 1984 Los Angeles Olympic Games USAUSA F 5. 2:11:09
21 OCT 1984 Chicago Marathon USAUSA F 3. 2:09:09
15 DEC 1983 Melbourne AUSAUS F 2. 28:02.73
20 MAR 1983 11th IAAF World Cross Country Championships GBRGBR GW F1 6. 37:00
05 FEB 1983 Tampa USAUSA F 1. 42:47
09 APR 1983 Rotterdam Marathon NEDNED F 1. 2:08:37
14 AUG 1983 Helsinki IAAF World Championships FINFIN OW F 1. 2:10:03
16 DEC 1982 Melbourne AUSAUS F 2. 28:12.2h
20,000 METRES
17 APR 1982 Roma ITAITA F 58:37.2h ST
ONE HOUR
17 APR 1982 Roma ITAITA F 1. 20516
21 MAR 1982 10th IAAF World Cross Country Championships ITAITA GW F1 10. 34:20.5
04 APR 1982 Milano ITAITA F 2. 1:01:18 RS
08 OCT 1982 Brisbane Commonwealth Games AUSAUS F 1. 2:09:18
12 NOV 1981 Melbourne AUSAUS F 1. 13:34.28
28 MAR 1981 9th IAAF World Cross Country Championships ESPESP GW F1 6. 35:20
04 JUL 1981 Perth Australian Road Running Ch. AUSAUS D F 1. 1:14:42
06 DEC 1981 Fukuoka Marathon JPNJPN F 1. 2:08:18
06 FEB 1980 Melbourne AUSAUS F 4. 28:16.12
01 AUG 1980 Moskva Olympic Games URSURS OW F 10. 2:14:31
07 DEC 1980 Fukuoka Marathon JPNJPN F 8. 2:10:44
20 DEC 1979 Melbourne AUSAUS F F 1. 28:23.6h
25 MAR 1979 7th IAAF World Cross Country Championships IRLIRL GW F1 62. 39:20
20 MAR 1977 5th IAAF World Cross Country Championships GERGER GW F1 37. 38:52
15 JAN 1976 Melbourne AUSAUS F 3. 29:12.2h
16 DEC 1976 Melbourne AUSAUS F 28:50.4h
https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/australia/robert-de-castella-639Steve Jones according to the IAAF.
14 AUG 1993 Stuttgart IAAF World Championships GERGER OW F 13. 2:20:04
08 MAR 1992 Dublin IRLIRL F F 4. 22:43
20 APR 1992 Boston Marathon USAUSA F 11. 2:13:55
04 OCT 1992 Toronto Marathon CANCAN F 1. 2:10:06
30 JAN 1990 Auckland Commonwealth Games NZLNZL F 4. 2:12:44
05 NOV 1989 New York Marathon USAUSA F 8. 2:12:58
24 JAN 1988 Nara JPNJPN F F 4. 1:02:28
18 APR 1988 Boston Marathon USAUSA F 9. 2:14:07
06 NOV 1988 New York Marathon USAUSA F 1. 2:08:20
22 MAR 1987 Warszawa IAAF World Cross Country Championships POLPOL GW F1 107. 38:45
29 MAR 1987 Fleet Half Marathon GBRGBR F F 1. 1:02:54
20 APR 1987 Boston USAUSA F 2. 2:12:37
11 JUL 1986 London Peugeot-Talbot Games GBRGBR GL F 5. 13:30.60
26 JUL 1986 Edinburgh Commonwealth Games GBRGBR A F 3. 28:02.48
08 JUN 1986 South-Shields GBRGBR F 2. 1:00:59
30 AUG 1986 Stuttgart European Championships GERGER F 20. 2:22:12
14 JUL 1985 London GBRGBR F 4. 13:45.38
19 JUL 1985 London Peugeot-Talbot Games GBRGBR GL F 8. 13:37.52
02 JUL 1985 Stockholm DN Galan SWESWE GL F 10. 27:53.91
30 AUG 1985 Bruxelles Memorial van Damme BELBEL GL F 6. 28:12.78
24 MAR 1985 13th IAAF World Cross Country Championships PORPOR GW F1 37. 34:34
11 AUG 1985 Birmingham GBRGBR F 1. 1:01:14
21 APR 1985 London Marathon GBRGBR F 1. 2:08:16
20 OCT 1985 Chicago Marathon USAUSA F 1. 2:07:13
13 JUL 1984 London Peugeot-Talbot Games GBRGBR GL F 10. 7:49.80
10 JUN 1984 Gateshead GBRGBR F 5. 13:27.84
27 MAY 1984 Cwmbran GBRGBR F 2. 28:12.51
10 JUN 1984 Gateshead GBRGBR F 1. 28:09.97
03 AUG 1984 Los Angeles Olympic Games USAUSA OW H3 4. 28:15.22
06 AUG 1984 Los Angeles Olympic Games USAUSA OW F 8. 28:28.08
24 AUG 1984 Bruxelles Memorial Van Damme BELBEL GL F 3. 27:58.64
25 MAR 1984 12th IAAF World Cross Country Championships USAUSA GW F1 3. 33:32
21 OCT 1984 Chicago Marathon USAUSA F 1. 2:08:05
04 JUN 1983 Lisboa PORPOR F 2. 27:59.3h
09 JUL 1983 Oslo Bislett Games NORNOR GL F 4. 27:39.14
07 AUG 1983 Helsinki IAAF World Championships FINFIN OW H1 6. 27:47.57
09 AUG 1983 Helsinki IAAF World Championships FINFIN OW F 12. 28:15.03
20 AUG 1983 London GBRGBR F 5. 28:07.03
26 AUG 1983 Bruxelles Memorial van Damme BELBEL GL F 1. 27:55.38
20 MAR 1983 11th IAAF World Cross Country Championships GBRGBR GW F1 19. 37:35
10 JUN 1982 Lisboa PORPOR F 2. 13:18.6h
09 JUL 1982 Paris-St-Denis FRAFRA GL F 3. 28:05.74
24 JUL 1982 London GBRGBR F 2. 28:08.75
06 SEP 1982 Athina European Championships GREGRE GL F 7. 28:22.94
21 MAR 1982 10th IAAF World Cross Country Championships ITAITA GW F1 23. 34:45.5
11 SEP 1981 London GBRGBR F 3. 13:30.31
28 MAY 1981 Helsinki FINFIN F 1. 28:02.49
19 JUN 1981 Praha TCHTCH F 6. 28:00.58
07 AUG 1981 London GBRGBR F 3. 28:10.73
28 MAR 1981 9th IAAF World Cross Country Championships ESPESP GW F1 31. 35:59
27 JUN 1980 London GBRGBR F 8. 8:26.71
05 SEP 1980 London GBRGBR F 2. 28:13.25
3000 METRES STEEPLECHASE
DATE COMPETITION CNT. CAT RACE PL. RESULT
08 AUG 1980 London (CP) GBRGBR F 6. 8:32.00
09 MAR 1980 8th IAAF World Cross Country Championships FRAFRA GW F1 9. 37:23
25 MAR 1979 7th IAAF World Cross Country Championships IRLIRL GW F1 7. 37:46
LATEST
27 MAY 1978 Macomb USAUSA F 2. 1:47.43
15 SEP 1978 London GBRGBR F 7. 13:38.82
25 MAR 1978 6th IAAF World Cross Country Championships GBRGBR GW F1 11. 40:15
20 MAR 1977 5th IAAF World Cross Country Championships GERGER GW F1 103.
https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/great-britain-ni/steve-jones-1315Lopes according to his IAAF profile:
24 MAR 1985 13th IAAF World Cross Country Championships PORPOR GW F1 1. 33:33
20 APR 1985 Rotterdam Marathon NEDNED F 1. 2:07:12
28 JUN 1984 Oslo Bislett Games NORNOR GL F 2. 13:16.38
16 JUN 1984 Lisboa PORPOR F 1. 28:05.40
02 JUL 1984 Stockholm DN Galan SWESWE GL F 2. 27:17.48
25 MAR 1984 12th IAAF World Cross Country Championships USAUSA GW F1 1. 33:25
12 AUG 1984 Los Angeles Olympic Games USAUSA F 1. 2:09:21
21 OCT 1984 Chicago Marathon USAUSA F 2. 2:09:06
24 JUL 1983 Lisboa NC PORPOR F 1. 13:28.1h
04 JUN 1983 Lisboa PORPOR F 1. 27:35.8h
09 JUL 1983 Oslo Bislett Games NORNOR GL F 1. 27:23.44
07 AUG 1983 Helsinki IAAF World Championships FINFIN OW H2 2. 28:05.62
09 AUG 1983 Helsinki IAAF World Championships FINFIN OW F 6. 28:06.78
20 MAR 1983 11th IAAF World Cross Country Championships GBRGBR GW F1 2. 36:52
09 APR 1983 Rotterdam Marathon NEDNED F 2. 2:08:39
24 JUL 1982 Lisboa PORPOR F 6. 3:41.4h
10 JUN 1982 Lisboa PORPOR F 4. 13:21.8h
14 JUL 1982 Lausanne Athletissima SUISUI GL F 3. 13:17.28
18 AUG 1982 Zürich Weltklasse SUISUI GL F 8. 13:18.40
26 JUN 1982 Oslo Bislett Games NORNOR GL F 1. 27:24.39
04 JUL 1982 Dublin IRLIRL F 1. 27:57.7h
06 SEP 1982 Athina European Championships GREGRE GL F 4. 27:47.95
18 JUL 1981 Lisboa PORPOR F F 1. 13:39.2h
30 MAY 1981 Lisboa PORPOR F 2. 27:47.8h
04 JUL 1981 Warszawa European Cup Semifinal POLPOL F 1. 28:11.89
09 MAR 1980 8th IAAF World Cross Country Championships FRAFRA GW F1 26. 37:55.3
26 SEP 1979 Lisboa PORPOR F F 1. 13:39.9h
22 APR 1978 Lisboa PORPOR F F 2. 28:21.0h
18 JUN 1978 Sittard NEDNED F 2. 28:05.0h
20 MAR 1977 5th IAAF World Cross Country Championships GERGER GW F1 2. 37:48
09 MAY 1976 Lisboa PORPOR F 2. 5:09.4h
24 APR 1976 Lisboa PORPOR F 1. 7:48.8h
06 AUG 1976 Edinburgh GBRGBR F 4. 8:24.95
21 MAY 1976 Köln GERGER F 1. 13:28.6h
02 JUN 1976 St-Maur FRAFRA F 1. 13:24.0h
18 AUG 1976 Zürich Weltklasse SUISUI GL F 2. 13:25.32
29 MAY 1976 München GERGER F 1. 27:45.71
23 JUL 1976 Montréal Olympic Games CANCAN OW H1 1. 28:04.53
26 JUL 1976 Montréal Olympic Games CANCAN F 2. 27:45.17
09 AUG 1976 Stockholm DN Galan SWESWE GL F 1. 27:42.65
28 FEB 1976 4th IAAF World Cross Country Championships GBRGBR GW F1 1. 34:48
20 AUG 1975 Zürich Weltklasse SUISUI GL F 3. 13:33.78
14 JUN 1975 Lisboa PORPOR F F 2. 28:30.6h
ONE HOUR
28 AUG 1975 Lisboa PORPOR F 1. 20158
23 JUN 1974 Lisboa PORPOR F F 1. 13:34.2h
25 MAY 1974 Lisboa PORPOR F F 1. 28:38.8h
02 SEP 1974 Roma European Championships ITAITA GL F DNF
18 AUG 1973 Lisboa PORPOR F F 1. 13:41.4h
05 AUG 1973 Lisboa PORPOR F F 1. 28:37.0h
15 APR 1973 Lisboa PORPOR F F 1. 8:39.2h
15 JUL 1973 Lisboa PORPOR F 1. 8:39.6h
17 MAR 1973 1st IAAF World Cross Country Championships BELBEL GW F1 24.
07 SEP 1972 München Olympic Games GERGER OW H1 9. 14:29.6h
31 AUG 1972 München Olympic Games GERGER OW H3 9. 28:53.6h
10 AUG 1971 Helsinki European Championships FINFIN GL F 33. 30:05.64
https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/portugal/carlos-lopes-6364Championship Schmampionship wrote:
Deek's hammer wrote:
Out of the 3, Deek is the only one to have won a major global marathon world title in a non-boycotted championship. Championship record therefore goes to Deek.
The boycott was meaningless to the '84 Marathon. Advantage Lopes.
Who of the boycotted countries would have been a contender?
Waldemar Cierpinski? His PB is slower than Lopes' winning time.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2n2z4DTP17A/UMyWYzoZtlI/AAAAAAAADsE/6GinBFvwN7Y/s1600/Cierpinski_Marathon_Montrea.jpgLook at this clip, his action is pretty conventional running at 3 min pace.
There is only a slight whip of the arm.
Lopemede wrote:
Championship Schmampionship wrote:
The boycott was meaningless to the '84 Marathon. Advantage Lopes.
Who of the boycotted countries would have been a contender?
Waldemar Cierpinski? His PB is slower than Lopes' winning time.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2n2z4DTP17A/UMyWYzoZtlI/AAAAAAAADsE/6GinBFvwN7Y/s1600/Cierpinski_Marathon_Montrea.jpg
Cierpinski was a major championship runner and he was only 34 years old in 1984. He could have been a medal chance.
GDR wrote:
Lopemede wrote:
Who of the boycotted countries would have been a contender?
Waldemar Cierpinski? His PB is slower than Lopes' winning time.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2n2z4DTP17A/UMyWYzoZtlI/AAAAAAAADsE/6GinBFvwN7Y/s1600/Cierpinski_Marathon_Montrea.jpgCierpinski was a major championship runner and he was only 34 years old in 1984. He could have been a medal chance.
Definitely - the guy was a proven championship performer who rose to the occasion in multiple championships. Deek's win over Cierpinski in 83 is highly underrated. And who's to say that the Eastern Bloc nations would not have been motivated to produce another medal contender or winner for the marathon in LA if there was no boycott? The Eastern bloc nations generally produced medalists in the middle and long distances every time they entered a major championship - for example Schildhauer and Kunze both literally blew by Lopes on the last lap in the 10000m in 1983 World Champs to take the silver and bronze medals.
You can be an efficient runner (economy as measured) yet poor biomechanics, get injured a lot and only manage say 100km/wk abnd long injury breaks
Or you can be however big you are like Deek, inefficient style, but able to crank out 200mile weeks
Even if everything else is equal, who going to win and be more consistent?>
I Am Sam wrote:
You can be an efficient runner (economy as measured) yet poor biomechanics, get injured a lot and only manage say 100km/wk abnd long injury breaks
Or you can be however big you are like Deek, inefficient style, but able to crank out 200mile weeks
Even if everything else is equal, who going to win and be more consistent?>
What is an efficient runner by definition?
Deek's hammer wrote:
Definitely - the guy was a proven championship performer who rose to the occasion in multiple championships. Deek's win over Cierpinski in 83 is highly underrated. And who's to say that the Eastern Bloc nations would not have been motivated to produce another medal contender or winner for the marathon in LA if there was no boycott? The Eastern bloc nations generally produced medalists in the middle and long distances every time they entered a major championship - for example Schildhauer and Kunze both literally blew by Lopes on the last lap in the 10000m in 1983 World Champs to take the silver and bronze medals.
Lopes was never known for his finishing speed on the track.
twistr wrote:
Deek's hammer wrote:
Definitely - the guy was a proven championship performer who rose to the occasion in multiple championships. Deek's win over Cierpinski in 83 is highly underrated. And who's to say that the Eastern Bloc nations would not have been motivated to produce another medal contender or winner for the marathon in LA if there was no boycott? The Eastern bloc nations generally produced medalists in the middle and long distances every time they entered a major championship - for example Schildhauer and Kunze both literally blew by Lopes on the last lap in the 10000m in 1983 World Champs to take the silver and bronze medals.
Lopes was never known for his finishing speed on the track.
Very true. I wish he had attempted to go from far out like he did in the '83 Bislett 10 at least once in a major Championship on the track though. Last 1200 in a little over 3 minutes comfortably and just a second outside the WR in a 40 runner field.
Nobody was better at giving the field the slip in the last part of a CC race or Marathon.
The '84 and '85 WCC titles were masterpieces.
Schildhauer should have run NYC in 83.
If only ... wrote:
Schildhauer should have run NYC in 83.
https://youtu.be/7IviPHYNK_w?t=593
Why?
Schildhauer's marathon PB is 2:17 from 1980.
Loping Along wrote:
twistr wrote:
Lopes was never known for his finishing speed on the track.
Very true. I wish he had attempted to go from far out like he did in the '83 Bislett 10 at least once in a major Championship on the track though. Last 1200 in a little over 3 minutes comfortably and just a second outside the WR in a 40 runner field.
Nobody was better at giving the field the slip in the last part of a CC race or Marathon.
The '84 and '85 WCC titles were masterpieces.
Unfortunately championship 10000m finals are generally slow and this works against Lopes.
XC and marathon where it is usually tougher for kickers to save their speed, is when Lopes shows his true class.
Lopes wind up the pace like Kipchoge does now till everyone dies.
coahc wrote:
came across a workout that I did with Deek in Jan 1993 towards the end of his career: 5x1k at 2:53 average with 400 recovery in 1:35. A great runner but an incredibly nice guy!
On the AIS track in Canberra.
I remember that. wrote:
coahc wrote:
came across a workout that I did with Deek in Jan 1993 towards the end of his career: 5x1k at 2:53 average with 400 recovery in 1:35. A great runner but an incredibly nice guy!
On the AIS track in Canberra.
Anyone know if there is documentary on Deeks' career? Great runner.
