Bad Wigins wrote:
that fast w1500 was in 1992 actually, all the more impressive since EPO wasn't really a big thing just yet.
EPO was already a very big thing in 1992.
Bad Wigins wrote:
that fast w1500 was in 1992 actually, all the more impressive since EPO wasn't really a big thing just yet.
EPO was already a very big thing in 1992.
Cyclist wrote:
EPO was already a very big thing in 1992.
Yep...the first commercially available rHuEPO (Epogen) was approved by the FDA in 1989.
Bad Wigins wrote:
that fast w1500 was in 1992 actually, all the more impressive since EPO wasn't really a big thing just yet. Splits of 60, 2:05, 3:09 and a medal was assured.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVHyrCWeSqs
Bags in the fridge?
Bad Wigins wrote:
3hr-marathoner wrote:Ayana is the exception. I can't think of another recent example of a distance runner (1500m and up) leading from the gun and winning an Olympic final. Maybe in the steeple? I think you have to go back to Zatopek or Nurmi to find a front runner who won an Olympic final at 1500, 5000 or 10000m from the front taking the lead before half way.
You can't get away with moving the goalposts that far. Recent olympics are a very small sample of as few as 12 races if you don't count steeple or 2008. World championships matter too. Besides, if front-running is a bad tactic, it should have been in the past. I just thought of recent examples because they came to mind first.
for some others, Ngugi 1988, Kipkoech 1987. Bekele 2004 broke the 10000 up before halfway, and though he didn't lead every ensuing lap, he did lead all the fast ones, helped only by Sihine who ended up 2nd.
That's another advantage of frontrunning, ensuring a medal even if it's not gold. Rogacheva went out in 60 in 1996, finishing in 3:57 for 2nd - a perfect tactic that would have been gold if Boulmerka hadn't had a 3:55 in her that day.
I'm only moving the goal posts in that I'm conceding the front-running seems to be a viable championship strategy in the 800m. I'm only excluding the steeple because I don't follow it. I'm sticking with HRE on this. In the 1500 and up, winning from the front is very much the exception rather than the rule and even then when people do break away and run from the front, it generally not before halfway. There's a reason for this, drafting is about 3% easier than leading. It's very hard to be 3% better than the field but if you wait until halfway to make your break, you only need to be 1.5% better--still a lot, but a margin that some of the greats like Bekele or El G may have had.
In any case, I wish more people tried to win from the front but this thread is about why more world-record-capable athletes don't try it, and this is why.
Tadese 2009 10k alls you need to know
Was Tadese the world record holder in that race? Also Tadese did a similar thing when he went out front in 2012 at the olympics and couldn't hold win.
Race to win, not for time.
Point was leading the whole race and what happens, which is the reason people don't do it. So yeah the wr holder ran the smart race and won by not front running, seems to answer the question well...
Doubtful Pre Doubtful wrote:
Modern runners are afraid to run a hard third lap as Kip Keino did in the 1968 1500 final. However Kip had altitude behind him as a weapon as well. The world did not know much about altitude then.
In the future we may see some exciting changes in racing philosophy. Remember when Dave Wottle won the 800 in 1972. Basically ALL smart runners do it similar to that in the big races now.
There are some that can sprint long and some that can only hold a short kick. Perhaps some smart coach will figure out a way to train an athlete to always be able to kick that third lap hard and yet still hold on for a win at the Olympics.
Perhaps a team approach may get it done with one athlete going out hard and then the "second athlete," picking off the rest. Perhaps a very fast lap by that "first athlete?"
Regardless you have to believe that the world will figure out a different strategy to win. It might be miraculous.
You heard it here from Doubtful Pre Doubtful first.
Good call
Interesting reading this after Cheruiyot’s win in Doha. Not sure we will see that feat replicated again with how strong the event has become. As good as he is, Jakob has come up just short in both attempts. I wonder if he would be content to sit in the pack longer if it weren’t for Cheruiyot winning from the front like he did. Jakob points to El G winning from the front as well but doesn’t seem to account for the fact he had a teammate pacing him through 800m.
Evdawg wrote:
While watching many different races in 1500m and over from the last decade or so in the olympics, I've noticed how many times people who have run incredibly fast times play into the hands of those like Centrowitz and Farah who rely on quick last laps. When talking about the 1500m, obviously in 2004 Hicham might not have been able to run the same WR speed as in 2000, but why couldn't he just run a 3:28-29 in 2000? He still probably could have ran similarly fast in 2004 though, just not quite. Why couldn't Bekele run a 12:40 in 2004 instead of getting outkicked by Hicham, a miler. Why didn't Kiprop run a 3:28-29 at the most recent olympics instead of letting Centrowitz lead the race? I understand the benefits of strategy and just trying to race but obviously for certain Eastern Africans and Hicham, it seems like it would just be a better strategy to go for as fast as possible when no one else can run that fast. This is especially dumbfounding when Kiprop ran the 3:27 at Monaco and beat the rest of the field including Farah (obviously he's not a 1500 runner but he's still fast), Makhloufi, and Centrowitz by a huge margin.
OP’s point is that WR holders should never lose any race until their record is broken.