shugs wrote:
Your training is you describe it sounds very conventional for those aiming for high performance - two workouts per week, a long run, and high volume.
One workout per week. Which to me is a "sprinkle" of speed and most likely similar to what the original post was trying to describe.
Week 1 - threshold
Week 2 - intervals
Week 3 - threshold
Week 4 - intervals
And so on..
The big mental hangup seems to be the idea that the rest of the mileage is really slow.
When I'm in good shape all my recovery/aerobic runs seem to be at a quite a slow pace but they don't take a lot out of me. If that helps anyone.
Which would result in the fastest times? Mile vs marathon?
Running 100mpw at 9 min pace.
Running 90mpw at 8:30 min pace.
Running 80mpw at 8 min pace.
Running 70mpw at 7:30 min pace.
Running 60mpw at 7 min pace.
Running 50mpw at 6:30 min pace.
Running 40mpw at 6 min pace.
Running 30mpw at 5:30 min pace.
Billy Fap wrote:
RunCzar wrote:There is a guy in my town who is in his 50s and has run sub 2:40, although the article doesn't state what pace he does his miles at. I've heard he runs 3 times a day on a treadmill most days. Yikes!
http://www.runnersworld.com/general-interest/runner-aims-for-marathon-age-group-sweep"For Zalokar, that has meant high mileage—he averaged 150 miles per week over a seven- to eight-week stretch leading up to London, with a high of 162 miles—and just as important, keeping his weight down"
I found an earlier article about Zalokar that details his training. It looks like he mixes up his paces quite a bit.
http://www.runnersworld.com/masters/lightening-the-loadAckley wrote:
Billy Fap wrote:"For Zalokar, that has meant high mileage—he averaged 150 miles per week over a seven- to eight-week stretch leading up to London, with a high of 162 miles—and just as important, keeping his weight down"
I found an earlier article about Zalokar that details his training. It looks like he mixes up his paces quite a bit.
http://www.runnersworld.com/masters/lightening-the-load
This guy is a genetic freak who chooses to run 2:35 marathons.
"SUNDAY AM: 32 miles on road, easy; PM: 8 miles on road, easy
MONDAY AM: Half marathon tempo run in 1:20 on treadmill, cool-down until 16 miles total; NOON: 9 miles on road, easy; PM: 7 miles on road, easy
TUESDAY AM: 13 miles on treadmill, easy; NOON: (track) half-mile warm-up, 8×800m @ 2:49-2:39 with 200m jog between, 1.5-mile cool-down
WEDNESDAY AM: 2-mile warm-up, 8 mile tempo run in 43:19 on treadmill, 4-mile cool-down; NOON: 7 miles on road, easy; PM: 6 miles on road, easy"
8 mile " tempo" @ 5:21 @ age 51 ( negative incline ? )
He could be racing 10 milers and halfs a lot faster.
55y246d 2:25:56 Piet vanAlphen (NED) 16 Aug 1930 19 Apr 1986 Rotterdam NED
56y236d 2:27:05 Erik-Verner Ostbye (SWE) 25 Jan 1921 18 Sep 1977 Goteborg SWE
57y103d 2:33:12 Norman Green (USA) 27 Jun 1932 08 Oct 1989 Saint Paul MN USA
58y021d 2:35:51 Alex Ratelle (USA) 12 Sep 1924 03 Oct 1982 Saint Paul MN USA
59y337d 2:34:23 Yoshihisa Hosaka (JPN) 05 Jan 1949 07 Dec 2008 Fukuoka JPN
60y027d 2:36:30 Yoshihisa Hosaka (JPN) 05 Jan 1949 01 Feb 2009 Oita JPN
61y033d 2:38:12 Yoshihisa Hosaka (JPN) 05 Jan 1949 07 Feb 2010 Oita JPN
62y202d 2:41:07 John Gilmour (AUS) 03 May 1919 21 Nov 1981 Albany AUS
63y030d 2:45:23 John Shaw (AUS) 03 Jun 1953 03 Jul 2016 Gold Coast AUS
64y072d 2:42:44 Clive Davies (USA) 17 Aug 1915 28 Oct 1979 Portland OR USA
65y129d 2:41:57 Derek Turnbull (NZL) 05 Dec 1926 12 Apr 1992 London ENG
66y027d 2:42:49 Clive Davies (USA) 17 Aug 1915 13 Sep 1981 Eugene OR USA
67y045d 2:51:07 Luigi Passerini (ITA) 22 Feb 1923 08 Apr 1990 Mirandola ITA
68y253d 2:51:02 Ed Whitlock (CAN) 06 Mar 1931 14 Nov 1999 Columbus OH USA
Age 56, 2:45 at Tokyo, next marathon L.A., 57 in May.
http://strawberrycanyontc.org/running/news/?tag=fred-zalokar
macdaddy wrote:
Which would result in the fastest times? Mile vs marathon?
Running 100mpw at 9 min pace.
Running 90mpw at 8:30 min pace.
Running 80mpw at 8 min pace.
Running 70mpw at 7:30 min pace.
Running 60mpw at 7 min pace.
Running 50mpw at 6:30 min pace.
Running 40mpw at 6 min pace.
Running 30mpw at 5:30 min pace.
25 miles a week, 4:30 pace on the hard days and 5:30 pace on the easy days
Try race walking 100 mpw at 9:00 pace.
Mile to 2 Miles wrote:
macdaddy wrote:Which would result in the fastest times? Mile vs marathon?
Running 100mpw at 9 min pace.
Running 90mpw at 8:30 min pace.
Running 80mpw at 8 min pace.
Running 70mpw at 7:30 min pace.
Running 60mpw at 7 min pace.
Running 50mpw at 6:30 min pace.
Running 40mpw at 6 min pace.
Running 30mpw at 5:30 min pace.
25 miles a week, 4:30 pace on the hard days and 5:30 pace on the easy days
Should be 25 mpw at 5:00.:)
At under 10k, the faster guys are going to dominate. Pretty much anyone who runs 30mpw @5:30 pace is going to be able to run sub 34(I.e. daily training pace for slightly longer). Some of the 100mpw at 9 min might be able to race that fast but you will also have a big chunk who struggle to break 37. As you up the distance the mileage gets more important but where that transition is hard to say. If I had to guess the fastest marathoners would be in the 60-80 mpw groups.
Obviously nobody in the world trains like this. You would have to be idiotic. Change to is it better to do the same fast work (say 10-20miles per week) and then do say 60mpw @ 7min pace or 80mpw @8 min or 100@9min and you would get a range of answers. It probably doesn't matter much. You rapidly end up debating things like are 2x7 mile runs better or worse than 1x12. The best answer is they are different.
This thread seems to have focused on 50+ masters men, but I know of several elite women in their prime who run at least 100mpw, with the majority of it 8-9min pace, but then run marathons in the 2:30s.
For recovery runs and easy aerobic base most Kenyans run between 2 and 3 minutes slower than projected race pace. For example, Geoffery Mutai does very long runs (2hrs) at 8:00 miles. His goal pace in the marathon is 4:42 per mile. Long easy running is a essential part to any marathon training. This gives you aerobic and strength conditioning without excessive cellular damage.
Used to getting chicked wrote:
This thread seems to have focused on 50+ masters men, but I know of several elite women in their prime who run at least 100mpw, with the majority of it 8-9min pace, but then run marathons in the 2:30s.
Takahashi - 180 @ 8 at 7,000 feet ran 2:19
xlev2 wrote:
somebody do the math for me, 100 miles a week at 9 min pace is how many hours of strictly running a week?
It took me about 10 seconds of mental math to find the answer. On the other hand, I am not a good cook. Everybody has their strengths and weaknesses.
15 hours: The key is 60 min/ hr. 100 X 9 min = 900 min. 60 X 10 ( hours) = 600 min. 300 is half 600, so half 10 hours = 5 hours. 10 + 5 = 15 hours
naia champ wrote:
I'm 63 and just retired so taking the opportunity to experiment with this-up to 82 miles last week the majority at 9 min or slower but make a point to add frequent hills and about 10 mpw of tempo (one longer and one shorter workout)- last week 10 x 880 yd at 3:10- yesterday 7 miles at 6:54 pace. All quality runs are on a soft surface. Cardio and recovery are fine (60s rest on the 880s) but leg speed is the limiting factor (part of that problem may be related to my 8-10 miles the day before). I ran 2 marathons at age 58-59 right around 3 hr on 45-50 mpw with lots of tempo/intervals (up to 20 plus mpw at sub 7 min pace) so curious how this goes. I've got all the time in the world to train and usually swim or easy bike in the afternoons. FYI I've got about 900 60s-70s songs on my ipod to pass the time during long runs. The strava mileage challenge also adds to the fun.
Interested to hear how you go after 6 months of this.
For the OP, I think the 100 mpw at 9 min pace will get a better result (faster races) if there's a small amount of fast running in the mix, even if that's a weekly short race.
What I'd be curious about is if there's a significant difference in race results between the 100 mpw at 9 min pace with a small amount of speed and 70 mpw at 9 min pace. What does that extra 30 mpw give you?One minute off a 5k time, 30 seconds?
I believe those guys exist, because I am one of them. 2:34 in Boston, 2:37 in Philly and Berlin, and all of them when I was over 54 yo. And I would say, I rarely run MP on the road, and most of my fast miles are on the track, and probably less than 10 miles on average. Most of my miles are around 7:30 pace, and some are 9 minute pace. So, it is true, you dont have to tear yourself up weekly to achieve good results. Recovery is very important.
That's great running! What were your lifetime bests?
I do this same kind of training but I live at altitude. In my 30s and i popped a 2:40s marathon on my first one. i can barely break 18mins for 5k. people run way too fast most days and then wonder why they cant put it together on race day
in HS/college i ran with guys who did most stuff around 7min pace and most of them got injured and dont even run anymore
I never really competed long distance races. I started at 45 yo. I ran track in college though, 400 meters and 800 meters, 48 and 1:49 respectively
RunCzar wrote:
There is a guy in my town who is in his 50s and has run sub 2:40, although the article doesn't state what pace he does his miles at. I've heard he runs 3 times a day on a treadmill most days. Yikes!
http://www.runnersworld.com/general-interest/runner-aims-for-marathon-age-group-sweep
I've found my new idol.