Kenyans aren't genetically superior?

The way to beat the Kenyans is to get the US govt to build lots of roads there and sell them discounted cars. Then get in stack loads of McDs, Burking Kings and KFCs. Then hand out free Playstations and X-boxes to all the kids. Ten years from now they'll be just as fat and lazy as the rest of us.

Good point.

An alternative would be to make sure you have at least two teammates in a final (a tall order), then help one another to get at least one runner into the top three.

apparently not good Enough

not when the NHL is on strike, then they revert to challenging the Aussies for the world's title in drinking

First of all, I've never had a post pulled from this board. Ever.

Second, the government of Kenya is committed to the sport of running in a way most country's are not. It is their national sport.

If you think that's dumb, I don't give a shit.

RunDaddy wrote:

First of all, I've never had a post pulled from this board. Ever.

Second, the government of Kenya is committed to the sport of running in a way most country's are not. It is their national sport.

If you think that's dumb, I don't give a shit.

The Kenyan government is not committed to the sport of running at all. They are notorious for not funding athletics.

Their national sport, as is most countries of the world, is soccer.

More Letsrun idiocy wrote:

The Kenyan government is not committed to the sport of running at all. They are notorious for not funding athletics.

Their national sport, as is most countries of the world, is soccer.

There are a lot of things the Kenyan government doesn't fund or can't fund. It doesn't mean the country isn't behind the sport of running. Running is matter of national pride to the Kenyans much more so than it is here in the US. And they've certainly done a lot better lately internationally in running than in football.

I just don't buy the genetic advantage argument

We could start to pay our top guys 500K per year and they wouldn't beat the great Kenyans. Has very little to do with money, sponsors, etc. Genetic superiority is obvious. Statistics and results don't lie.

tuna wrote:

Dog, you're right. It looks worse for the Asians.

First 8 finishers for 11 events:

Black: 40

White: 40

Asian: 8

I'll ask again, does anybody see evidence of genetic superiority here?

On the men's side it was:

The 200 million or so people of East Africa: 24 top 8 finishes.

The 6.3 billion people in the rest of the world: 22 top 8 finishes.

But those results are a bit scewed since Kenya was allowed to enter only 3 in the steeple and Ethiopia was allowed to enter only 3 in the 5k and 10k.

I don't know if it's genetic or not, but yes, I do see evidence of superiority here.

It isnt just one thing or the other. Its them put together that makes them so good. Hard Training + running to school (for some, not Tergat however) + altitude + barefoot running + genetics = the reason why they are so good. All the factors combined.

Thanks dukerdog, apparently you are one of the few who is actually being honest and not trying to spin #'s to invent a fantasy you prefer over reality.....like Tuna seems to be doing. Since he can't find any evidence of East African superiority, let's play his little #'s game for him, shall we???

First let me say two things about the women's #'s:

1) East African women have only really begun to come on the scene of distance running in the last 10 years (especially the last 5). They were there before, but just a sprinkling. Now cultural barriers have been removed in their countries, and they are being encouraged to participate more. So........East African women, while still dominant, have only just begun to show their prowess. Give them 5 more years and you won't believe your eyes. And.......

2) Women's times have ALWAYS been more easily manipulated by drugs. Giving a women high doses of testosterone turns her pretty much into a man. Giving a man steroids turns into......a more "talented" man. It just is not as big of an improvement. And women's competitions do not have the depth of men's, so again, a few drugged women can have a HUGE impact on records and medal counts. Look at Marita Koch, and Jarmila K, Flo Jo, and the Chinese women.......drugged performances that just can't seem to be touched by a clean performer. The high majority (NOT all) of women's WR is drug-aided I would say.

For these 2 reasons, looking at women's performances in our argument of East African vs The Rest of the World is not as fair. This is called "looking at the big picture", not plucking some stats out of your ass. BUT.....having said that. Let's take a look at East African women vs The Rest of the World, let's even ignore what I have written above if it makes you happy (because I know you probably think the East Africans could be on drugs):

Women's Team World X-C results

In the last 5 years, there have been 20 Gold and Silver medals awarded in team competition for the short and long course races. The distribution of those 20 medals????

East African (Kenya and Ethiopian) 18

The Rest of the World (in this case I think it was USA and Portugual maybe) 2

Read that again, tuna-stat-boy.........EIGHTEEN to TWO. Noooooooo........that's not dominant, is it???? Not at all. I should stop right there.....but I won't.

Let’s look at the Women’s All-Time 5 and 10k track performances:

Here is the all-time 10,000m peformer list for women. ***BUT......with 3 Chinese times from the early 90's removed by me. Sorry, I find these times HIGHLY suspect, so, for the sake of argument, this is MY list, though I did leave the official ranking # next to their names in ()'s.**** So under MY list, East African born runners(mostly Ethiopian) make up over 1/2 of the top 13.

Alltime List: 10000m (Women)

No. Result Athlete Nation Venue Date

1 (2) 30:01.09 Paula Radcliffe GBR München 2002-08-06

2 (3) 30:04.18 Berhane Adere ETH Saint-Denis 2003-08-23

3 (4) 30:07.15 Werknesh Kidane ETH Saint-Denis 2003-08-23

4 (6) 30:12.53 Lornah Kiplagat NED Saint-Denis 2003-08-23

5 (8) 30:13.74 Ingrid Kristiansen NOR Oslo 1986-07-05

6 (9) 30:17.49 Derartu Tulu ETH Sydney 2000-09-30

7 (10) 30:22.48 Getenesh Wami ETH Sydney 2000-09-30

8 (11) 30:22.88 Fernanda Ribeiro POR Sydney 2000-09-30

9 (12) 30:23.07 Alla Zhilyayeva RUS Saint-Denis 2003-08-23

10 (13) 30:24.36 Xing Huina CHN Athínai 2004-08-27

11 (14) 30:24.98 Ejagayehu Dibaba ETH Athínai 2004-08-27

12 (15) 30:26.20 Galina Bogomalova RUS Saint-Denis 2003-08-23

13 (16) 30:32.03 Tegla Loroupe KEN Sevilla 1999-08-26

Now lets look at the 5000 m list. I will not even remove the Chinese times this time:

Alltime List: 5000m (Women)

No. Result Athlete Nation Venue Date

1 14:24.68 Elvan Abeylegesse TUR Bergen 2004-06-11

2 14:28.09 Jiang Bo CHN Shanghai 1997-10-23

3 14:29.11 Paula Radcliffe GBR Bydgoszcz 2004-06-20

4 14:29.32 Olga Yegorova RUS Berlin 2001-08-31

Berhane Adere ETH Oslo 2003-06-27

6 14:29.82 Dong Yanmei CHN Shanghai 1997-10-23

7 14:30.88 Getenesh Wami ETH Heusden-Zolder 2000-08-05

Tirunesh Dibaba ETH Bergen 2004-06-11

9 14:31.48 Gabriela Szabo ROM Berlin 1998-09-01

10 14:32.08 Zahra Ouaziz MAR Berlin 1998-09-01

11 14:32.33 Liu Shixiang CHN Shanghai 1997-10-21

12 14:32.74 Ejagayehu Dibaba ETH Bergen 2004-06-11

13 14:33.04 Werknesh Kidane ETH Oslo 2003-06-27

14 14:35.18 Sentayehu Ejigu ETH Bergen

6 of the top 14 are Ethiopian. Remove some of the suspect Chinese or Russian times, and they REALLY dominate these lists.

So summing up:

World X-C

East African Women DOMINATE the rest of the world.

5k and 10k all-time top performers:

East African women make up NEARLY HALF of the top 15 performers in those events. (And if one removes many of the suspected drug performances, they dominate even more. ) You may say "nearly half" does not prove that they dominate, but c’mon……is there another region of the world on earth that can come CLOSE to what they have done recently in distance running (5k, 10k, and world x-c ) ????

No. And I have used WOMEN as an example, already explaining why East African dominance is not nearly what it could be (if one removed drugged times, and if East African women had been encouraged to compete more in their homelands).

Do you REALLY want me to post the MEN’s all-time top performers for the 5 and 10k and compare East Africa vs the Rest of the World???? I will spare you all the brutal #’s, but will ask you this:

WHY are there ONLY TWO WHITE RUNNERS FROM GREAT BRITAIN AND THE USA IN THE TOP 55 ALL-TIME PERFORMERS OF THE 10,000 meters, AND 50 EAST AFRICANS???

Superiority???

10,000 meters all-time top 55 performers:

East Africa 50

Rest of the world COMBINED 5

Looks like you LOSE the stats game tuna.

Yes, you have. Please don't lie. I'd link to the exact thread that was disappeared, if it was still there. You should know the one. You were saying something stupid about African "shit-holes." Oh, wait, you're ALWAYS saying something stupid, so that doesn't narrow things down, does it?

No, they're not. As people who have actually been here fully know, the government is notorious for starving athletics of funding. RunDaddy, give me ONE example of "government committment" to athletics in Kenya. Just ONE. C'mon. Let's have it. (Raising the national team's allowance to 800 shillings/day? Please.)

Well, unless you have any studies, or even some training in the subject, those of us with a clue will keep on laughing at you, results in hand.

p.s. Dad, there's no apostrophe in the plural of "country," which is "countries," not "country's." I find it hard to talk evolutionary biology with someone who doesn't know gradeschool punctuation. Where did you go to school, anyway?

Let's just say we don't know why Kenyans are great and end this topic!

Mr. A-lot,

If the steam coming out of your ears would allow you a moment of clarity would you please explain your take on the men's middle and long distance events at Athens which clearly did not show an East African dominance. Thanks.

I think Tuna makes some good points. As do you. But you make a convincing case for recent East African dominance, not necessarily East African genetic advantage. Why have the East Africans been dominant? That's the difficult question.

But, according the The Mann, beacuse I made a punctuation mistake, I have no business arguing evolutionary biology. The Mann clearly is a graduate of a very distinguished school, while I am a mere Trade School graduate. I am humbled by The Mann. For all the courageous soldiers I've served with, you should know (even those no longer with us) that elite snobs like The Mann are out there to correct your punctuation when it really matters, or even when it doesn't.

No they are not. They just train as they imagine Rexing would.

We had quite an interesting thread about this on The Competitive Wire over at Coolrunning.com over the summer. Every argument being propounded here, on both sides, was raised and flogged mercilessly. Check it out:

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum9/HTML/000649.shtml

SonNative wrote:

Let's just say we don't know why Kenyans are great and end this topic!

I think its funny that peoople want to think its a lifestyle thing.

lol..

that have this idea that EVERYONE in kenya runs 15miles to school everyday B.S. Come on ppl its not like every third world country in the world is in east africa.

IF it was lifestyle, the Indians of mexico would own every distance medal there is.

NOT ONLY do so many great runners come from east africa THE MAJORITY come from 5 tribes in northern kenya.

With a handlefull of talented runners from ethiopia.

There maybe outliers in a large enough Pop. like the usa, but in the end.

Its genetic, .... and everyone here knows it.

Madein_82 wrote:

Its genetic, .... and everyone here knows it.

HAHAHA! You're right, and everyone here knows it, too.

Everyone except RunDaddy, but he served with courageous soldiers, so let's not tell him that he's wrong. After all, he served with courageous soldiers, some of whom are no longer with us. He served. Did he mention he served.

Of course it's genetic.