Why did Steve Ovett decline so quickly?

ukathleticscoach wrote:

He hit some railings when out running in 1981 damaged some muscles and never had quite the same kick after that

He still manage a WR in 83 which meant he wat at the top from 1977 - 1983.

From 1977-1979 he was No 1 over 1500m then No 1/2 to 1981

After 1984 when he had lung problems in LA he stuggled with the heat - he was a different athlete in the Commonwealths compared to the hotter Europeans in 1985

I think he made a mistake switching from his normal xc winter backgorund to going to Australia to train and race track in Winter over later years

I also reckon getting married took the edge of him as it did for Cram - just a theory though

Getting married lowers a man's test levels. This is no joke. Look it up. If you're a top flight athlete, stay single as long as possible.

Certainly Not Skuj wrote:

Didn't Ovett run the 1500 WR AFTER the leg accident? Why are some of you saying that accident robbed him of his kick / power?

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His WR was better paced than previous efforts and before Coe came along he never even bothered chasing records. Kick is different to sustained effort

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In '84 he was in the shape of his life but couldn't prove it.

No evidence of that really I think he was in good shape but not near 77-81

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In '86 and '87 came the 5000m experiment, but also some more bad luck with illness.

He would have run better over 5000m in his peak years having come 4tth in English national xc back when we had some class runners over xc

Anyway, I think he was at the top for about 10 years.

He had a long career is you factor in the incredible performances he did over 800m aged just 17

ukathleticscoach wrote:

He had a long career is you factor in the incredible performances he did over 800m aged just 17

I found an interesting profile of his career here :

"Before he reached the age of twenty he had run 47.5sec. for 400m, 1min. 45:75sec. for 800m, 3min: 39.5sec. for 1500m. and 3min. 57.0sec. for the mile (he had run a 4-minute mile at the age of seventeen). "

Also, in 1977 he ran 13:25 for the 5000m in a race he came second in to the Olympic Champion Yifter.

no

we do "know" ovett was in worst in 1'43-flat shape in '78

it was certainly quicker from reading his views on race where he said he made mistake of sitting on a dying coe for too long, thinking coe was going to kick, but coe was just collapsing

it was a tactical race with a fast lap & ovett made mistake of treating it as a TT when with 49.7 opener for him, he shouda treated as a TT & kicked past coe at 1st opportunity

ovett shouda kicked at 500 - 600, not stalk him running wide on bend then kicking

he lost good 0.3/0.4s sitting on coe rather than blasting past a fading coe at 500 - 600

ovett ran ~ 2.5m wide last bend

he ran 1'44.09 with ~ 2.5m wide on last bend

-> for route 1 of

1'44.09 * ( 800/802.5 ) =

1'43.76

now including the 0.3/0.4s he threw away on 2nd lap waiting on collapsing coe, the final time shoud be using intermediate of 0.35s

~ 1'43.41

off 49.7 / 53.71

then i used a formula for converting to ideal 2s +ve splits

[ 2nd lap - 1st lap - 2.00 ] * ( 1/3 )

for ovett, this woud mean knocking off 1'43.41 :

[ 53.71 - 49.7 - 2.00 ] * ( 1/3 ) = 0.67s

-> "perfect" race that day was

1'43.41 - 0.67 =

1'42.74 !!!

hugely better than the then 1'43.44wr

eh ??

no

i based this on race analysis, formula & ovett's comments

it is opinion based on "facts" :

- ovett ran ~ 2.5m extra last bend

- huge +ve splits woud be quicker with "ideal" 2s +ve splits, which for him that day shouda been ~ 50.3+ / 52.3+

ovett was forced to run nearly 3/4s too fast on 1st lap that day

- ovett's own comments that he ran it tactically, sitting on collapsing coe for too long

no

i suggest you analyse & research better

you have not bothered to ever account for ovett's ~ 2.5m wide on last bend or huge +ve splits or tactical run, sitting on collapsing coe too long

i saw that race live on tv & remember how poorly ovett ran it when coe went off suicidally & that ovett was by far best 800 guy in field that day

from line of fit from likely time of flat-out 2 mile just after

i have to re-adjust those using a 1'42.7

ovett's lines of fit that year at peak, for nearest to 8'05 / 8'08 with nearest 0.1s for 400m are :

46.7 / 1'42.7 ->

2'12.12

3'28.38

3'45.47

4'47.48

7'31.63

8'08.35

46.9 / 1'42.7 ->

2'11.96

3'27.70

3'44.65

4'46.16

7'28.77

8'05.12

a conclusion is that in '78-peak, ovett was in ~

46-high

1'42-high

2'12-flat

3'28-flat

4'47-flat

no

from analysis

you must have little idea of ovett if you don't think he was capable, as biggest kicker of the year not capable of 46-high

is this a joke ???

you think the ovett, who was in ~ 1'42-high in prague only had 47-high that day ???

he had 46-high that day

on unknown track, probably dirt

as expected, that was 47-low whilst still in likely heavy training

on unknown, virtually certainly dirt track in somewhere called hendon, which i hugely doubt had synthetic track back in '78

that is 46.3 on synthetic

worth 47.0 on synthetic

based on magnificent peak of prague when in full, rested shape & on definite synthetic track

you do not seem to know anything about ovett

'79 was supposed to be "rest" year, with no great targets until forced to hurredly chase wrs because of coe's runs, off nowhere like ovett's '78 shape

he ran 46.8 in nonsense meet versus giants of switzerland & poland !!!

he put in so little effort that he won the 800 that day in 1'49.54 !!!

ovett nowhere near '78 shape in '79 despite breaking wrs

is this a joke ???

i saw ovett in '78 on tv, watching as grown man & never quite got around to fully analysing how good he was that year

he was ~

46-high

1'42-high

2'12-flat

3'28-flat

4'47-flat

he was nowhere as good in '79, probably just as good in '80, but not so in '81/'82/'83/'84

is this a joke ???

his 400 runs in '78 were virtually certainly on dirt whilst in heavy training

Found an interesting article detailing the severity of Ovett's LA 84 problems :

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/09/28/sports/players-mile-is-a-giant-step-for-ovett.html

"At the Los Angeles Olympics, Ovett collapsed after finishing last in the final of the 800 meters, the event he won in Moscow in 1980. He recovered to qualify in the 1,500 meters but was forced to withdraw. The problem was diagnosed as a viral infection of the heart, and he was told he might need an operation. Ovett thought his career was over.

''When people tell you they may have to operate in the valve of your heart,'' the lanky 29-year-old Englishman said this week, ''the thought that your career may be over crosses your mind.''

The operation never took place, but Ovett was ordered to abstain from any activity. He was under constant monitoring until last January.

''The doctors told me after the Olympics I had to take six months off and relax,'' said Ovett, a former world-record holder in the 1,500 and mile. ''I was worried it was all over. When I got my heartbeat up to 150, the valve started malfunctioning.'' He said the inflammation and malfunction of his heart was later attributed to bronchitis.

Inactive for about six months, Ovett said he gained 20 pounds over his normal weight and his fitness suffered considerably.

In January, he was given the go-ahead to work out again, and he worked hard. His work was continuously supervised by doctors and he was given tests for his heart after each workout. Still, he said he did not expect to make his return until the summer of 1986, in the Commonwealth Games, or the European Championships. Ovett, however, proved that he belongs in the category of athletes who recover quickly. By the beginning of the summer, he was ready to compete again and won his first race. He ran in several local races in Britain and was pleased with his performance.

Ovett's biggest race since his return was the Westminster Mile in London, which he won two weeks ago. That was the race that brought back plenty of credibility to Ovett because he beat his archrival, Steve Cramm."

ovett has been claimed as stating Ryun was his idol

interesting...

wrong move

Ryun clearly was never looking for big kick at 400 or 200 out, but brutal pace from gun - bell as per-training, but got no-one to offer fast-pace to bell in '66 / '67

he ran last 1200 off uneven 2'46-high !!! on dirt at 95F !!! in 3'33.1WR, which clearly influenced ovett, albeit no way ever close to talent

ovett was very good runner, albeit "jock-strap-carrier" level for the big elites :

in '78, he was likely capable of

~ 1'42-high / 3'28-low

Ovett actually ran a 47.5 400m race in 1974 as an 18 year old. That was the 8th best time for the year in the UK.

That 5000m he ran at the 1986 commonwealth games where he jogged a 13:20 showed he could have cracked 13. I predict 12:59 for Ovett.

I just came across this article from 1987 and I remembered this thread.

Apparently, Ovett was suffering from bronchial problems again in the USA in early 87.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-02-14-sp-3034-story.html

Coevett wrote:

Ovett actually ran a 47.5 400m race in 1974 as an 18 year old. That was the 8th best time for the year in the UK.

Yes, I know. But that was when he was mainly moving from 400 and focusing on 800m. He never broke 48 secs again in an open 400m, at least not for the next 4 seasons, as he moved up to being more of a 1500m runner.

He only actually ran a few 47.** relay legs, and only once broke 47 in a relay; 46.8 in 79.

I do think he neglected his 400m speed a little as he became dominant over 1500m, relying on his natural explosiveness/change of speed and his strength.

Reading the posts before yours, I'd forgotten what a load of old nonsense Calculo used to come out with.

I'd say peak Ovett, at height of his form between 78 and 81, could have run a 47.5 -47 high open 400m in competition. He should have run 800m in 1:42 high/1:43.0.

Coevett wrote:

I just came across this article from 1987 and I remembered this thread.

Apparently, Ovett was suffering from bronchial problems again in the USA in early 87.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-02-14-sp-3034-story.html

Maybe Ovett was doping and then randomly decided to come off the dope and struggled afterwards. There was no test for autologous blood doping nor for steroids, both widely used in cycling at the time.

I mean what are the chances that all the best middle distance athletes in the world came from the same country in exactly the same era?

....Sound familiar, moron?

Made the semi finals of the men's 1500m at the 1976 OG and the finals of the 800m at the same games.

Won the 800 at the 1980 Games and bronze in the 1500.

Made the finals of both events at the 1984 Games (neither race went well).

Pretty lengthy career ... specially for those days

Two reasons:

1. Prematurely balding guys w high testosterone often develop and peak early

2. Likely had undiagnosed asthma that developed during his career. With modern medicine and treatment he could have extended his career. Too bad he didn’t compete for the Norweigian winter Olympic team!

Yup bald old Miruts Yifter, never did much North of 35 did he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrZpT-LXO-8

ex-runner wrote:

Coevett wrote:

I just came across this article from 1987 and I remembered this thread.

Apparently, Ovett was suffering from bronchial problems again in the USA in early 87.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-02-14-sp-3034-story.html

Maybe Ovett was doping and then randomly decided to come off the dope and struggled afterwards. There was no test for autologous blood doping nor for steroids, both widely used in cycling at the time.

I mean what are the chances that all the best middle distance athletes in the world came from the same country in exactly the same era?

....Sound familiar, moron?

British Athletics should really try to establish who you are. You cheated somebody out of a place at the single UK athletics championships you qualified for. Luckily, despite all the drugs you were on, you were never good enough to get out of your heat.

Are you really comparing Ovett to Komen you imbecile? If Ovett had suddenly gone downhill in 1980 (instead of winning Olympic gold), and was running 1:55/3:50 by 1983 (without the railing accident) then I'd be the first to cast doubt on him. He went downhill in his thirties which is pretty normal, especially when you developed respiratory problems at 28 and they never really went away (as clear from the article I posted).

The only reason we don't think declining at around 31/32 is normal these days is because of guys like Kipchoge, Lagat, Bekele etc who were likely doping with EPO full throttle from the age of 12 to 30, and are still possibly or likely microdosing.

What are the chances of the three best middle-distance runners of an era coming from the same country? Pretty good actually, when that country had always dominated middle-distance running for close to 100 years already, aside from a brief decline in the 60's, despite it being an exclusive elite sport only open to the 0.1% of the population or less who got to Oxbridge.

Again are you really so dumb as to compare my claim about Bekele, Kipchoge, Komen, El G all appearing together in the brief EPO window, with three Brits appearing in the 80's? Are you saying that the Brits were doping in the 80's with roids and blood transfusions but nobody else? And in the 90s when EPO became available, the Brits were just about the only country to decline, so for some bizarre reason, British athletes doped themselves silly in the 80's, but were a lot more ethical in the 90's and wouldn't touch EPO (except the odd individual like you)??

Who are "the Brits"? Just a ridiculous statement. We are talking about 3/4 specific athletes in a specific era when blood doping and steroids were not only not tested for, they were allowed.

During that short window GB saw it's best athletes ever. Cram, Coe, Ovett, Daily Thompson,

The question wasn't what are the chances the three best middle distance runners at that time came from GB. It was what are the chances the best GB runners of all time who were also the best in the world and would be competitive today, all popped up in the same short span. No GB runners since are anything close to their abilities.

If Kipchoge, one of the most high profile athletes of all time, is doping today then every also ran Brit is doping with impunity. Some even winter in your nightmare's Ethiopia and Kenya. Have you heard of target testing by any chance? Heard of the AIU? You just have no idea about anti-doping so make things up as you see fit.

.

No, you wouldn't. You'd do any triple backflips required to defend white runners. What I try and show you repeatedly is that the same arguments you use against the athletes you don't like can be used against the ones you do like. There is no more evidence for Kipchoge doping than there is for Ovett doping.

British athletes doped themselves silly in the 80's, but were a lot more ethical in the 90's

Worth pointing out that in the late 80s early 90s we had Fatima Whitbread, Colin Jackson, Linford Christie, Johnathan Edwards. Maybe the testing for steroids wasn't so good still...

Bad Wigins wrote:

He was going bald. Bald-goers burn their endocrine candle at both ends, hitting a high but brief early peak. They set WR's and then quickly fade away a la Webb.

Lagat was balding in college, yet you think he can run sub-4:00 at age 45.

Coevett wrote:

Are you saying that the Brits were doping in the 80's with roids and blood transfusions but nobody else? And in the 90s when EPO became available, the Brits were just about the only country to decline, so for some bizarre reason, British athletes doped themselves silly in the 80's, but were a lot more ethical in the 90's and wouldn't touch EPO (except the odd individual like you)??

I was friends with the brother of a former Scottish cycling semi-pro (pro during racing season only, was his explanation for the term "semi-pro"). My friend's brother said that everyone was "on it", otherwise they were just not able to compete with the rest.

And he was surely not competing against Africans.