Kassidy Johnson from Maize South HS won the 400 (57.73), 800 (2:17.44) and 1600 (5:10.91) for class 5A (second-largest class) at the Kansas state meet a couple of weeks ago. And yes, I'm fully aware that it's a joke that Kansas has six classes.
Kassidy Johnson from Maize South HS won the 400 (57.73), 800 (2:17.44) and 1600 (5:10.91) for class 5A (second-largest class) at the Kansas state meet a couple of weeks ago. And yes, I'm fully aware that it's a joke that Kansas has six classes.
opinionated guy wrote:
Flagpole wrote:No...by the standard of running against elite high school competition. If you are a high school boy and you win a state championship in over 17 minutes (and there are LOTS of them out there...go find them...I'm not about to call attention to any one specific person), then you are not even close to what the best high school boys run, and a few high school girls will beat you. Sorry, but that's not impressive.
VERY hypocritical. Inferring your quote above to the world, "If a man wins the U.S. championship in 13:20, terrible by Kenyan standards, then you are not even close to what the best in the world run, sorry but that's not impressive."
The point of a competition is to win. Times are statistics, just like yards gained in football or assists in basketball. It is silly to say the Broncos were not impressive by winning the Super Bowl because they only had 65 rushing yards. They won the highest level put before them. Just as every state champion across the U.S.
If you want to be impressed that a kid ran 17:38 and won a state championship, then go ahead. College coaches don't want to hear this:
"Dear Coach,
My name is Flagpole, and I hope to be considered for a place on your cross country and track teams. I was a three-time conference, district, and regional champion in cross country and in the 3200 in track. I also won the cross country state championship as a junior and as a senior, and I won the 3200 state title my senior year."
This gives nothing to the coach (and yes I know they fill out recruitment forms that ask for times; point is that as a talking point, just saying you were a champion of those things means nothing).
This is better:
"Dear Coach,
My name is Flagpole, and I just finished my sophomore year of high school at Super Cool High School. I plan to fill out the recruitment form on your web site once I have taken the SAT, but I wanted to introduce myself to you before that. I am a distance runner, and my PRs include a 15:18 for the 5,000 in cross country and 9:12 for the 3200 in track.
Please keep me on your radar. I will fill out your recruitment form as soon as I have those SAT scores, and I hope to be in touch.
Sincerely,
Flagpole"
Yowsah wrote:
Can you actually cite a boy who won his 5k state championship by running over 17 minutes (absent a hurricane or blizzard or 90 degrees plus heat)? Or do you think just making up stuff somehow wins the argument?
For you to ask those questions shows that you have no idea how many state championships have been won with very slow times.
I don't want to call anyone out, so I won't mention names, but here are some stats for you.
Recent state championship for a BOY in the 3200 won in 10:56. Second place was 11:18. Seriously?!
Recent state championship for a BOY in 5000 CC won in 17:12.
Recent state championship for a BOY in 5000 CC won in 17:35. Second place was 17:58.
Recent state championship for a BOY in 5000 CC won in 17:21.
Recent state championship for a BOY in 5000 CC won in 17:49.
I could look up this stuff all day and find even slower times that won a state championship. I don't make statements without the knowledge first, brother.
HardLoper wrote:
USUALLY if you see a state championship won over 17 minutes it's because the course was VERY difficult (this is true of Hawaii and most northeastern states). The fastest courses in New England are probably still slower than the hilliest ones in Ohio.
That is what a lot of people think, but that's not true. There are MANY states with such watered-down divisions that a super slow time can win a state championship.
Found another fun one:
Recent state championship for a BOY in 5000 CC won in 18:13. Also, second place was also 18:13, so they were likely pushing each other.
Another New Hampshire kid actually did win 400 and XC championships
Matt Paulson from Manchester Central: 2006 MOC Champ in cross, 2007 Class L champ in 400 (49.83) and also 800 (1:55.42). Also ran 4:12 for 1600 and won the NH MOC twice in that event. Ran 4:02 for Boston University eventually.
For the person who asked about a field event and XC ...
Carsyn Koch from Maine won the HJ and XC titles.
This guy up in Canada was a beast!
Fatty Fatty wrote:
So 16:59.9 is when impressive begins? How do weather and course difficulty factor into your impressiveness calculation? Does this logic apply to Olympic and WC races, too? Is an Olympic gold medal unimpressive if it's the slowest winning time ever? I'd love to hear more about Flagpole's standards for giving a pat on the back.
I placed seventh in a big state in the largest division. The winner of the next largest division was slower than me by three seconds. In my opinion, winning the smaller division was significantly more impressive because that guy WON HIS RACE. It's a championship...the point is to win.
1) I am not about to put a line in the sand about where impressive begins. 17:49 though is not impressive.
2) You want to believe that there were adverse conditions, but I can find examples all day where one winner ran over 17 minutes and another in low 15s on the same course the same day.
3) Point is to win the race. I never said it wasn't. These guys who win in 17+ and the guy I mentioned earlier who won in 18:13, are not just jogging for the win. They are in a watered-down division where the competition is horrible. The 18:13 guy barely beat another 18:13 guy. You think they weren't trying and just decided to finish together and let the equipment determine the winner? No way.
4) I could perhaps agree with you that a dude who won a small division and was yet slower than you by just 3 seconds could be more impressive, but you are from a big state, and you placed 7th. I will assume a decent time -- likely under 16:00, and perhaps well under. If that guy won the smaller division and yet ran 17:56 while you ran 15:31, would you think that was more impressive than what you did? No way would it have been.
My goodness Flagpole, you cannot let go. Enough. Winning a State Championship is impressive. So is being the Valedictorian of your school.
XY wrote:
Rodney Giles won the state XC championship twice. He also won the state 400m and indoor 300m. (47.4)
He was a HS 1:46 800m runner (relay) 1:48 open
Read my post above. Giles best xc finish was 9th.
http://www.carrollcountyrunning.com/Records/MarylandStateChampionships.htmNick Setta was an All-Stater in XC, 4x8, 4x4, 800, and high jump. I believe he won one state title in the 800 and qualified for state in the 300 hurdles. This was done in Illinois largest class (AA) at the time. He also played football during XC season and set a state record with a 59 yard field goal kick.
Christina Aragon in the 2013-2014 school year. She did win the 2013 State Championship XC Meet, and then in the Spring won the 400m, 800m, 1600m, and placed 4th in the 3200m.
She got DQd this year in the 400m for a "false start" that was heavily contested. Christina Aragon has put away 4 state championships in the 800 and 1600, 2 in the 400m, and 1 in the 3200m in 4 years of high school.
Last fall she ran 16:47 to place 2nd in xc. (She won the 3200m, 1600m, and 800m this spring)
Slowoodboy wrote:
Ryan was great but could not have won the 400meters. Not even close.
Webb could have come close in a big state VA. He won VA cross and had the 2nd fastest 500m indoor time in the nation and he once split 47x. Although, VA usually produces at least one or two 47x sprinters each year so maybe not.
malmo wrote:
My goodness Flagpole, you cannot let go. Enough. Winning a State Championship is impressive. So is being the Valedictorian of your school.
Flagpole definitely "cannot let go" when it comes to such debates, but.....I'm with him on this one. USUALLY/MOST OFTEN "winning a state championships is impressive", but it certainly depends on the competition. It still is at least " pretty good" (I guess we are parsing words now) now matter what that competition is. But sometimes.....small state, multiple divisions, bad year, everyone decent in other events = no competition, and then....just not that impressive.
And my pet peeve: I guess we are counting state division/class winners as "state champs" ?? I never counted it this way. I only counted ALL State Champs as "state champs." But by your book, I was state champ.
(and as far as "impressive" goes, what would you say about finishing .08 out of 1st Place in the Eastern States ("Easterns") meet? Impressive? ;-) Uh, oh, someone is gonna be up late googling!)
Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
(and as far as "impressive" goes, what would you say about finishing .08 out of 1st Place in the Eastern States ("Easterns") meet? Impressive? ;-) Uh, oh, someone is gonna be up late googling!)
Oh add in: beat the ALL state champ by 6 seconds in that race.
Flagpole wrote:
[quote]Yowsah wrote:
Can you actually cite a boy who won his 5k state championship by running over 17 minutes (absent a hurricane or blizzard or 90 degrees plus heat)? Or do you think just making up stuff somehow wins the argument?
For you to ask those questions shows that you have no idea how many state championships have been won with very slow times.
I don't want to call anyone out, so I won't mention names, but here are some stats for you.
Recent state championship for a BOY in the 3200 won in 10:56. Second place was 11:18. Seriously?!
Recent state championship for a BOY in 5000 CC won in 17:12.
Recent state championship for a BOY in 5000 CC won in 17:35. Second place was 17:58.
Recent state championship for a BOY in 5000 CC won in 17:21.
Recent state championship for a BOY in 5000 CC won in 17:49.
You better give some names, years, and states Flagpole because I don't believe one of these posts.
Remember, we are talking (per your statement and the original comment on this thread) STATE championships....not Class titles.
Alan Webb never won a State 400 m title.
http://www.vhsl.org/doc/upload/pub-vhsl-recordbook-19th-edition-may-20163.pdf
A guy that has done neither but cold have in a week state Cooper Williams 47 second 400 and 15:13 5k actually won the 800 last Saturday at the Indiana State meet
kricor wrote:
Justin Hedin, BYU
http://byucougars.com/athlete/m-track-field/justin-hedin
Only one to do this and win a D1 NCAA Championship?