Religious fruitcake
Religious fruitcake
Christians not working on the Sabbath is complicated. No one can say for sure if the Sabbath is Saturday or Sunday or any day of the week you chose.
The best interpretation come from Exodus 20:8-11. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
The idea of taking time to rest and reflect with God is so important that God made it the fourth of the Ten Commandments. But no where does it say precisely which day of the week it is. The Sabbath was intended to be a time for us to take time out of our busy schedules and reflect on the good things in our life – our relationship with God, our family and our friends.
There are other areas of the bible where it implies you can do good things on the Sabbath, such as heal the sick and feed people, etc. (Does running or participating in a sport constitute work?) From a purely practical standpoint, no doctor would be allow someone to die because they can't work on the Sabbath and/or restaurant worker, firemen or police officer all refuse to work on the Sabbath. Two thousands years ago sheppards and farmers could not collectively have a day where they did not attend to their flock or crops. The bible also says you have to support your government, which may not observe the Sabbath. Perhaps some Christians took one day off, while others took another day off, but everyone can't take the same day.
As a Christian, you have to accept the bible as the divine word of God, but you also have to search your soul to do what is right and practical. The main purpose of the Sabbath was a day of 'rest and reflection', no one can say for sure what day that is and what constitutes rest and reflection.
So not running on Sunday is Biblical? I thought this issue was resolved in Chariot's of Fire.
Keeping other runners out of the final by acting as if you are going to compete seems pretty dishonest/deceitful, no?
TrackCoach wrote:
Christians not working on the Sabbath is complicated. No one can say for sure if the Sabbath is Saturday or Sunday or any day of the week you chose.
Building off this, can any LDS runners provide insight as to why running is considered "work" on a Sabbath? I'm genuinely curious. I would consider running a hobby or pastime (even when I was in college because I wasn't on an athletic scholarship), but how does that fit in with the day of rest? Is it because it's physical exertion? Would an easy jog be okay but not a race?
Would reading a book (not a religious text) for pleasure be okay? What about something like fishing that could be construed as both work (i.e., providing for your family) but also something pleasurable?
Bad Wigins wrote:
student of training techniques wrote:I used to wonder where Mao, Stalin, and Robespierre got people willing to persecute Christians
everyone's a victim these days but you guys have been doing it for two thousand years. Oh-so-persecuted just like your book instructs you.
Because Boko Haram and ISIS are myths, right? You are misinformed.
Twinn wrote:
There is a lot of praise for him standing up for his beliefs. Would I get the same support if I stood up for my belief that he is being an idiot?
Sure, you have to use your real name and location though.
All humans are irrational, that's why many of us run in ovals for fun, for example
eight days a week runner wrote:
TrackCoach wrote:Christians not working on the Sabbath is complicated. No one can say for sure if the Sabbath is Saturday or Sunday or any day of the week you chose.
Building off this, can any LDS runners provide insight as to why running is considered "work" on a Sabbath? I'm genuinely curious. I would consider running a hobby or pastime (even when I was in college because I wasn't on an athletic scholarship), but how does that fit in with the day of rest? Is it because it's physical exertion? Would an easy jog be okay but not a race?
Would reading a book (not a religious text) for pleasure be okay? What about something like fishing that could be construed as both work (i.e., providing for your family) but also something pleasurable?
As an LDS person, I would say this is an individual choice. The commandment is to keep that Sabbath holy, and LDS people decide as individuals how to keep the commandment--often with prayer and contemplation.
So one LDS runner could decide to run and even compete on Sunday and another would decide not to, and they could both be at peace with that decision.
The important part is that both individuals have made the Sabbath focused on God, rather than themselves.
LDSRunner wrote:
eight days a week runner wrote:Building off this, can any LDS runners provide insight as to why running is considered "work" on a Sabbath? I'm genuinely curious. I would consider running a hobby or pastime (even when I was in college because I wasn't on an athletic scholarship), but how does that fit in with the day of rest? Is it because it's physical exertion? Would an easy jog be okay but not a race?
Would reading a book (not a religious text) for pleasure be okay? What about something like fishing that could be construed as both work (i.e., providing for your family) but also something pleasurable?
As an LDS person, I would say this is an individual choice. The commandment is to keep that Sabbath holy, and LDS people decide as individuals how to keep the commandment--often with prayer and contemplation.
So one LDS runner could decide to run and even compete on Sunday and another would decide not to, and they could both be at peace with that decision.
The important part is that both individuals have made the Sabbath focused on God, rather than themselves.
The better answer would have been, "Because LDS runners are not hobbyjoggers."
1. How did he let his teammates down? It's not like he surprised him with his decision to not compete. Some may want him to compete but he didn't surprise then with his decision.
2. I respect Muslims who observe ramadan as a counter to the guy who said would I respect people who observed the earth going around the sun.
3. "as a Christian, you have to accept the bible as the divine word of God, but you also have to search your soul to do what is right and practical."
Hmmm. I disagree with that and consider myself a Christian but I don't pretend to have it figured it out.
I go to Trinity Episcopal near TCU.
LDSRunner wrote:
As an LDS person, I would say this is an individual choice. The commandment is to keep that Sabbath holy, and LDS people decide as individuals how to keep the commandment--often with prayer and contemplation.
So one LDS runner could decide to run and even compete on Sunday and another would decide not to, and they could both be at peace with that decision.
The important part is that both individuals have made the Sabbath focused on God, rather than themselves.
As another Mormon runner, this sounds about right. I run 6 days a week because I can't convince myself that my running is anything but leisure recreation and time away from my family. But it's complicated: I wouldn't feel right doing pull-ups or pushups, but doing a set of calf raises seems OK to me.
If I was a pro runner, maybe I'd decide that a particularly important race was an unavoidable professional duty. If Jared Ward runs the Olympic marathon on a Sunday, great. I respect that. If Josh Thompson thinks running his conference final on Sunday isn't OK, I respect that, too. I'm guessing they both got to be as fast as they are today at least in part by following the dictates of their own consciences. They should keep doing that.
As another Mormon runner, I understand that my religion is all made up by some wacky dude that loved to have sex with little girls and got killed in Illinois. As such, I can totally make up if I want to do a workout or a race on Sunday. This is ok because I live in a country with a great degree of religious tolerance... well, unless you're a muslem.
mark b wrote:
I do not share his beliefs for a moment BUT I admire anyone who stands by his principles even at some personal cost and the possibility of public ridicule.
So, you admire Hitler and white supremacists? You admire bigots that beat gays to death and pro-lifers that shoot up abortion clinics. They are just standing by their principles...and at some personal cost and the possibility of public ridicule.
No. Principles matter. Not just conviction in them.
I am the exact opposite of you. I admire people that question their beliefs on a daily basis. That are brave enough to be challenged, and also brave enough to admit they might be wrong.
LDSRunner wrote:
eight days a week runner wrote:Building off this, can any LDS runners provide insight as to why running is considered "work" on a Sabbath? I'm genuinely curious. I would consider running a hobby or pastime (even when I was in college because I wasn't on an athletic scholarship), but how does that fit in with the day of rest? Is it because it's physical exertion? Would an easy jog be okay but not a race?
Would reading a book (not a religious text) for pleasure be okay? What about something like fishing that could be construed as both work (i.e., providing for your family) but also something pleasurable?
As an LDS person, I would say this is an individual choice. The commandment is to keep that Sabbath holy, and LDS people decide as individuals how to keep the commandment--often with prayer and contemplation.
So one LDS runner could decide to run and even compete on Sunday and another would decide not to, and they could both be at peace with that decision.
The important part is that both individuals have made the Sabbath focused on God, rather than themselves.
Very interesting, and I appreciate the response. I'm definitely an outsider when it comes to the LDS church, so insights like this are very helpful.
I've never been particularly religious, but the closest I've ever had to a "spiritual" feeling is while running, so could one make the argument that running (or racing) on the Sabbath is keeping one holy? Not trying to find loopholes, but just struggling to understand a seemingly arbitrary, but at the same time very important, commandment.
Might have to do some reading on this...
wejo wrote:
1. How did he let his teammates down? It's not like he surprised him with his decision to not compete. Some may want him to compete but he didn't surprise then with his decision.
You realize that something does not have to be a surprise to be a letdown, right?
eight days a week runner wrote:
LDSRunner wrote:As an LDS person, I would say this is an individual choice. The commandment is to keep that Sabbath holy, and LDS people decide as individuals how to keep the commandment--often with prayer and contemplation.
So one LDS runner could decide to run and even compete on Sunday and another would decide not to, and they could both be at peace with that decision.
The important part is that both individuals have made the Sabbath focused on God, rather than themselves.
Very interesting, and I appreciate the response. I'm definitely an outsider when it comes to the LDS church, so insights like this are very helpful.
I've never been particularly religious, but the closest I've ever had to a "spiritual" feeling is while running, so could one make the argument that running (or racing) on the Sabbath is keeping one holy? Not trying to find loopholes, but just struggling to understand a seemingly arbitrary, but at the same time very important, commandment.
Might have to do some reading on this...
Yes, feeling "spiritual" is what the Sabbath is about. Running/racing on Sunday can go both ways, depending on what the individual determines is best for their spirituality or relationship with God. One way an LDS person would determine what works for them is by praying to ask God.
Thank you for asking and for your respect. :-)
It seems to me that Josh Thompson was clearly in violation of the failure to participate rule which is meant to discourage unethical gamesmanship in competition. The rule reads as follows:
Failure to Participate
ARTICLE 2. a. Competitors or relay teams must participate in the trials and/
or finals of all events in which they are declared. Declaration procedures
and deadlines for individual and relay team members, excluding alternates,
must be published. Such participation is also required in subsequent rounds
as a result of qualifying, or when participation is a criterion for entry in a
subsequent meet.
The penalty for violating the failure to participate rule is being scratched from any subsequent events in the meet. Luckily in this case, Josh wasn't scratched from an event because there were no subsequent events for him to be scratched from. I do wonder what mormonism teaches about violating the rules of a competition though. In any event, guess the big takeaway here is that doing so is alright a long as you don't actually have to suffer the consequence for violating the rule.
That said, it's possible he didn't even know about the rule. But even if that was the case, I'm sure his coach was aware of it and should not have entered him into the events when he knew Josh had no intention of running the finals from the outset.
Has anyone pointed out that a coach who recruits someone who won't run on Sundays is an idiot?
Because a coach who recruits someone who won't run on Sundays is an idiot.
For all the blind believers here, can I ask what translation of the bible are you commonly referring to?
Perhaps if you were to learn your history you would realise the English translations are massively flawed - essentially made up. Well let's face it all religions are made up anyway... Blind faith is just so ignorant, you can't blame Josh Thompson though, he's probably been spoon fed it his entire life.
eight days a week runner wrote:
Very interesting, and I appreciate the response. I'm definitely an outsider when it comes to the LDS church, so insights like this are very helpful.
I've never been particularly religious, but the closest I've ever had to a "spiritual" feeling is while running, so could one make the argument that running (or racing) on the Sabbath is keeping one holy? Not trying to find loopholes, but just struggling to understand a seemingly arbitrary, but at the same time very important, commandment.
Might have to do some reading on this...
I also agree. I'm a Mormon and I choose to run on Sundays for this very reason. Before I had a kid I would do my long run on Sundays, and the time spent in the forests lost in my own thoughts fell in line with my beliefs of the Sabbath. Some Mormons feel that running is not treating the Sabbath as a day of rest, but to me it is more about what you do with the Sabbath than what you don't do.
Now that I have a kid, I push her in the stroller and my wife rides her bike with us, so the runs have become special family time for us.