why can't I break 60 in the 400?

Yeah those sicknesses. They can knock you round.

My very limited experience helping my boy showed the cruise intervals are about the best thing aerobically for him (running 800 or further). He'd do close to 1km in 3.30-3.40, on the 5 minutes (so 1:20-1:30 walk recovery). That seemed to be the sweet spot for him when he was 13-14 and training for 800. Can't beat those longer reps.

He's now in the top 5-6 in the country for 200 and on his current improvement, could be a fair bit higher by March, not that 200 will be his main event. Combination of further strength/physical development, further hard work, and further technical training. He's still to get facial hair, which tells me he hasn't got all his strength yet. If he still has a big jump in speed/power to come, he could be seriously good (sub-21, so sub-46 for 400) in 18-24 months. But maybe he's already had his big strength/power hit. Who knows. I hope not.

He'll struggle to beat this Vic boy at Nats in Dec who is 6'2 and apparently has been since he was 12!

I have never seen such a poor attempt at speed work in my life. Box jumps and short hills are relevant to improving speed to an extent.

The fundamentals of speed work aren't that complicated; just run short reps faster than your intended race pace.

OP just do some 150m reps with 4/5 minute walk recovery in around 21s. Do at least 5 but stop when you feel your form go and you stray too much from your goal pace. That will get you started.

why change? wrote:

Lydiard is God wrote:

Undoubtedly, there are many and varied ways of looking at these things, but this outfit have spent considerable time and effort working it out.

http://www.functionalmovement.com/

Read the article entitled 'what the screen is really'. Efficient and safe movement patterns are the bottom of the performance pyramid, but most people neglect it. General athleticism and specific skill should be built on a strong and balanced base. You have to move well (in a fundamental way) before you can push the body hard. It is much more than just the 'core'.

Oh so calisthenics.

Sorry I am old and missed the new fad name.

No, smartass. It is a sophisticated attempt to delineate and explore what 'the core' actually means and does. In fact, it goes well beyond that to encompass a detailed analysis of movement, which comes before athleticism. Running may seem like a basic, straight-line activity, but there are many avenues for injury and dysfunction that can be elucidated and corrected.

OP you are slower than the world record for a 70 year old man which is under 60 seconds. He has also ran a 62 when he was 75. Here is that man running a 63i when he was I think 74. I hope you are at least that fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-X6oFRf5Lo

This is to demonstrate that sprinting is first and foremost a skill. The fast old man can beat you because he knows what he's doing and you don't.

Not really wrote:

Push ups, dips , pull ups dont help running. They make you heavy and slow and limit your arm motion by titghtening you. Kiprop, bekele, Lagat, Rupp, Kipchoge, Mo, Haile, Kipsang all these guys dont do it or even think about it. And they are still fast. They will tell you while laughing pull ups "Thats for army boys".

But Meb does Pull ups and push ups.

Just Sprint, do core work ( body weight). Run short Hills 20 seconds fast until your balls shrink. You will run 54 sec. You have it in you just tarin.

You are welcome.

Curtin did not get much of a chance to hit the weight room in high school. He credits his strength training at Tech for helping him blossom.

“I had no core strength. I had no upper-body strength,” Curtin said. “When I came here, we’d do weightlifting stuff and I could barely lift the bar.

You're missing the point there Karma Police. The poster said that top speed was genetic, which is true, and his second point was true too. Specific training.

400s most definitely are speed workouts. Where's your logic?

TannerD22 wrote:

400s most definitely are speed workouts. Where's your logic?

400s are most definitely not 'speed' workouts. They are rhythm workouts run at whatever pace with whatever rest is deemed appropriate for the pace you are wanting to train. And here's the logic.

Raw speed can only be developed by sprinting all-out and learning some decent technique. The usual 'genetic' cop-out obviously has considerable truth, but running as fast as you can is still a skill that can be improved, no matter what distance you are most suited to.

Lydiard is God wrote:

No, smartass. It is a sophisticated attempt to delineate and explore what 'the core' actually means and does. In fact, it goes well beyond that to encompass a detailed analysis of movement, which comes before athleticism. Running may seem like a basic, straight-line activity, but there are many avenues for injury and dysfunction that can be elucidated and corrected.

So this screening thing will delineate, explore and elucidate? Wow!

Karma Police wrote:

Slow twitchie - sorry, but you're wrong. The faster your top speed is, the more comfortable your first 200 of a 400 at a certain pace is.

The more comfortable your first 200 is, the stronger you will be over the 2nd 200. Part of building strength for the 2nd 200 of a 400 is improving your speed reserve.

Building speed reserve is a crucial yet undervalued part of training for the 400.

Alactic is almost totally genetic, right? So why do 100 runners need to train at all?

Sorry, but your comment is incredibly naïve. On your reasoning, a 400 runner only ever trains at 400 speed, an 800 runner only trains at 800 speed etc. That's fundamentally wrong. You need to work out what the components to running fast at your nominated distance are, work on each of them, AND work at current and goal race speed

Correlations/causation. Max speed correlates positively with 400m performance, but sprint practice will not necessary lead to improvements over 400m or longer distances because it uses a different skill.

Sprinters need to train because the tiny margin of improvement possible over 60m and 100m matters in races whose outcomes are decided by tiny margins.

You cannot prove the necessity or superiority of training at any other speed than race speed. The fact that it is common for athletes to do so is irrelevant and proves nothing.

randomxcguy wrote:

This is not a troll post. Thanks for all the answers I didn't realize my workouts weren't speed workouts.

If the original question was serious, here are a couple of suggestions that you should discuss with your coach.

First, discuss with him/her that you want to improve your high end speed. Not just because you want to break 60 in the 400, but because you want to improve your kick for the 3200 and xc. And you think it could improve your 800 and 1600 times. The catch is how does your coach use you for meets and what does he/she emphasize? Some coaches focus on improving all aspects of a distance runner to simply be faster. Some focus just on winning dual meets and don't want you to deviate from your primary events.

When I coached, there was some aspect of speed and sprint work through the entire training cycle. Typically, once every two weeks, the runners would do something like flying 30s in addition to 150s where the runner would alternate between 400m and 800m pace every 50m. Early season, they would only do 3 reps of each and progress to 5. Eventually, they would do those sprints after other workouts, like days when we did mile or 3k/5k pace workouts.

Another type would be 4x200m which would be done faster than 400m pace, but slower than 200m pace. The runner would usually have about 5-8 minutes rest.

Another workout (which is a pain to organize) is an acceleration workout where the runner does 10 runs starting from 100m at mile pace up to 200m at 400m pace. Each run ads 10m and is slightly faster. The workout can be found if you search Running Times for Joe Vigil Acceleration Workout and it gives the explanation.

Then there are the little things that were done. After basic distance runs, they did 6 to 10 100m strides. Other days you can do plyometrics, such as after tempo runs. One thing I picked up from Jack Daniels is that it is advised that 800m runners will regularly do 4-6x200m "strides" after their regular runs towards the middle of the cycle . But these are done at 800m pace and with plenty of rest.

In the winter season, I didn't like to over-race the distance group in their main events. However, I would often take a race day and put them in multiple sprints or sprint relays. In the spring, our best 4x400m teams at the end of a dual meet was composed of xc runners. They regularly outperformed the "sprinters".

But like someone above said, you really learn to run fast by putting a baton in your hand.

YET wrote:

Because you white

POD

why change? wrote:

Lydiard is God wrote:

No, smartass. It is a sophisticated attempt to delineate and explore what 'the core' actually means and does. In fact, it goes well beyond that to encompass a detailed analysis of movement, which comes before athleticism. Running may seem like a basic, straight-line activity, but there are many avenues for injury and dysfunction that can be elucidated and corrected.

So this screening thing will delineate, explore and elucidate? Wow!

Yeah, I know they're big words, but try to keep up. Some people use their intellect and practical skill to come up with a pragmatic method to reduce injury from athletic endeavour. Just a few more big words for you.

read again wrote:

You're missing the point there Karma Police. The poster said that top speed was genetic, which is true, and his second point was true too. Specific training.

You can make someone faster, but not fast. Top speed is partly genetic.

Specific training is necessary, but is not all you should do.

I would have thought that was pretty clear.

Karma Police wrote:

Top speed is partly genetic.

Which genes specifically?

Or do you really mean "top speed is partly determined by something unknown which it is convenient to assume is genetic?"

You should never do any distance work until you can break 60, then increase volume from there.

So start over.

Get some 200m speed.

Your track workouts should not exceed 1200m.

Ex 6x200, 3x400

400, 200, 200, 100, 100, 100

Short steep hills

Stairs

Work on that for a year or two.

Then move up to 800m training etc.