Detroit Piston Richard Hamilton a 4:30 miler?

chuck d wrote:

right. because you can always tell how fast a runner can run a mile by a fartlek workout.

Well, I've found it is a better predictor than their B-ball game.

chuck d wrote:and the only thing we're measuring is how much someone runs in a basketball game. you're comparing apples and oranges, craig. measure effort. measure the energy and stamina it takes to jump, pass, box-out, etc. these guys aren't just running up and down the floor, their muscles are doing other things and their cardiovascular system is being taxed as they do these things, too.

Ok, "measure the energy," and the best way of doing that would be by the amount of calories burned. The sports which burn the most calories in a set period of time: swimming, cross country skiing, rowing, running, biking (not necessarily in this order). Now, basketball doesn't rank that high when we "measure the energy," probably ranging somewhere below socceer and above baseball. So, basketball isn't the ultimate sport, and NBA players are not automatically the "best athletes" in the world as one poster said, therefore I think I can be forgiven for being somewhat skeptical about statements, by such dubious people as "skier" who say they knew firsthand "lots" of HS "lazy ass 4:30 milers" dogging it in practice, that "XXXXX" NBA guy should be able to run 4:30 even if it "might take 2 tries though" or at worst "give me three weeks with him and i'll have him there." Maybe he could, I doubt it without a longer time of specific training, but in theory it is possible. And, I do think it would be easier for a 4:30 miler to do a fartlek workout burning the same amount of calories ("measure the energy", you said) in the same amount of time as a NBA guy in a game, than it would for a NBA guy to do a 4:30 off of just B-ball fitness.

you clearly have spent considerable time in digesting and responsding to my post from four hours ago (and interjecting quotes from others). be skeptical, be dubious, be whatever you want. intelligent minds differ. i would, however, suggest that you find something better to do with your off days. stating your point over and over again - even in such a clever and literary way - doesn't make it any more compelling to me. you've made your point, i've made mine; let's leave it there.

id say an average for a high school runner would be around 5:00, but the average high schooler only trains during the season.

The Jerk doesn't find this reported 4:30 to be even remotely surprising.

The Jerk doesn't care, at all, about basketball, but it's pretty clear that almost any basketball player at the top levels has had to put work that targets all of the systems needed for miling. No "specific track training" needed for a 4:3x, which isn't that incredible. Put this guy in a track program for one year and he'd probably go sub-4:30. Same for half of his league, probably.

Years ago they had a TV show called Superstars, and one of the events was a half mile on the track.

One of the runners was a heavyweight boxer ( Ernie Shavers maybe?) who won with about a 2:15.

That suprised the hell out of me. I think Hamilton would be a a lot faster than him.

I know many claim NBA athletes are the world greatest, and being a huge Jordan fan I won't argue to much. I do think we should consider this the real "world greatest athletes", decathletes, very rarely run under 4:20 for the 1500. Phil McMullen did at the trials, but his brother Paul was a 3:33 1500 runner. Granted, this is at the end of two days of great exercison, but I think saying running 4:30 is easy isn't fair.

In a personal example, my roomate is a 7,800 point decathlete who actually went to college to run XC. His 1500 pr is around 4:40.

the point is that for some people it is easy. i love basketball and play it about 4-5 times a week. yet i am not offended by someone who is better than me but works less. i understand i will never be as good as rip hamilton just as i understood i would never be as good as bob kennedy. rip is an exceptional athlete who, not surprisingly, should be capable of things that seem exceptional, if not improbable, to those not as talented as him. he should not be put in the same catagory as the average high school runner just as he would not be put in the same category as the average high school basketball player. it is all a matter of perspective. 4:45 may be a respectible, and average, time for a high schooler in comparison to all the high school runners in the nation. but someone like alan webb or dathan ritzenhein would not view a 4:45 mile the same way. so while a 4:45 may certainly be an accomplishment and a goal for many dedicated runners, it is not viewed that way by the most talented and dedicated ones, the ones who leave college early to turn pro like webb and ritz, and rip.

It's easy for most NBA ballers to run well under 5:00 for the mile. They're the best athletes in the world. That's why a collection of their all-stars got beat by Puerto Rico in the Olympics.

Wrong TM.

The guy (the boxer) never paced himself, he was just chugging along.

I remember the announcers we're as surprised as I was because they felt compelled to mention how much road work boxers do.

If anyone can convince Rip to give it a serious try, I'm willing to bet $1000 that he runs 4:30. And considering that I'm a high school teacher, $1000 is a lot of dough for me.

Just forget all about whatever training, specific energy consumption, and all that bs go into playing basketball or running for a minute.

Realize this: Richard Hamilton, as an athlete, probably isn't on par with Kenny B, Lance Armstrong, or Michael Phelps, but whether he can actually run anywhere near 4:30 or not, he is a much better athlete than anybody who devotes his life to running and at the end of 10 years of solid training, runs a 4:27 mile.

Regardless of how "hard" it is for an "average" high school runner to run 4:30, it should be overwhelmingly much easier for one of the fittest athletes in the NBA to do it than for a 16-year-old that got cut from the football, basketball, soccer, baseball, lacrosse, and tennis teams to do the same. Hamilton is an infinitely better athlete. Provided that he's not well over 7 feet tall, I can't imagine much other reason why he'd be in the NBA and the other kid can't make the JV team.

If you are a 4:05 miler, a 29:50 10K runner, or a 2:15 marathoner, this might not apply to you, but for everybody else here: just forget about how "hard" it was or wasn't for you to run a 4:30 mile for the first time (I never have, my PR is 4:36). As an athlete, you're not even on the same planet as Richard Hamilton (not you Craig, I mean virtually everybody here). Whether he could actually run a 4:30 at the drop of a hat or not, realize the absurdity of your trying to estimate how hard he would have to train to run some time based on how hard you had to train to do the same.

Somewhere out there, there is probably a letsjump.com site, and a bunch of 17 foot long jumpers indignantly arguing that there's no way Richard Hamilton could jump as far as they can, because they're jumpers and he's not. Up next, can Shaq throw the shot as far as an average 16-year-old thrower? No way, Shaq ain't no thrower.

For those of you who think he would easily be able to run 4:30 based on his athletic ability .... you must be joking. Let's take the ncaa d1 outdoor qualifying times as an example. I just looked up the mile time to be 4.06 for automatic qualifying, and the 10k time is around 29 flat. So I would consider a 29 min 10k runner an exceptional athlete just as I would consider a 4.06 miler an exceptional athlete. This doesn't mean a 4.06 miler could run a 29 minute 10k and vice versa. Now what makes you think Richard Hamilton, although an exceptional athlete, could excel in the mile? Because he plays basketball well? I'm a d1 runner and I swim a mile or 2 a few times a week to cross train, but I still can't swim a 1 minute 100 free.

Sprinting down a court doesn't convert to a 4:30 mile. I'll believe it when I see it.

Let's look at your bet a little closer: IF Rip trained seriously for a mile, he'd probably have intermediate time trials and workouts that'd suggest what he could do and that's when you'd be placing your bet. For example, IF he ran a 2:09 800m and had 2-3 months of decent mileage in, I'd bet on him to run 4:30 too.

To the point-he might be able to run a 4:30 but never will.

What I don't understand is why do you guys care do you know how many people can run at least 4:30. Give it up guys.

I had an experience akin to someone early in this thread. In my high school, the captain of the soccer team came out for track and ran a 4:34 mile on the first day...just off his soccer training. I don't doubt that standouts in other sports, like Richard Hamilton, might have similiar capabilities. But remember, he did say "like 4:30," which is not the same as 4:30.

4:30 will put you among the top 500 or so HS times in the nation:

http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/nats00/topb16.htm

Not great, but good. Might not win the state meet, but will get you to the state meet in some states. NOT average. 5:00 mile, that's about average for a HS distance runner and for the general running public. Go to your local summer running series and 90% of the guys there will be around 5:00 while 90% of the girls will be around 6:00.

Soccer is like running on and off for 90 minutes while trying to kick a ball. Basketball is short sprints on and off with large breaks. I'd say most athletic, conditioned players like Hamilton or even 'ol Dennis Rodman could handle a 5:00 mile, but only the conditioned players and those of great height will have the biggest trouble. I'd say a lot of the 6'0' guards could run 5:00, but not 4:30. 4:30 is a lot harder than most people give it credit.

I ran a little bit in junior high, took off my freshman year of hs, then started training spohmore yr. After six months of running 30 miles a week, I was racing 4:25 and 9:16. And I was a 15 year old boy, with probably half of Rip Hamilton's natural athleticism and speed. If you gave him two months of aerobic training, coupled with his already excellent speed and gave him one or two specific mile interval workouts a week, I have no doubt he would break 4:30. Just because it is difficult for the average highschool runner to do it doesn't mean an incredibly athletic guy at his prime age and physical peak couldn't do it without busting his balls training.

First of all Rip is a rediculous athlete...

Second of all, if you didn't run a 4:30 mile in high school find a new sport, cause your not good...

Third of all, I'm not even a good college runner and I ran under 5 minutes in 8th grade...

Fourth of all, does it really piss everyone off that a 4:30 mile is not good, 4:30 is a joke, there's high school kids running the 2 mile at that pace and they never even make it to the professional level.

So for all you 4:30 haters, RIP is in the NBA, which is ten-folds a greater accomplishment then running a 4:30 mile and definately equates to him being able to accomplish that fleet.

I remember being so annoyed in 9th grade when, after I ran all winter and busted my butt through the preseason workouts, I ran 4:44 at the first track meet. And the shooting guard from the basketball team ran 4:37 after a week off following regionals (he got called up to varsity for state tourney).

Eventually he quit track to focus on hoops (he ended up going D-3, I want to say), but I wouldn't be surprised if he could have beat me with a modicum of training at any point in high school. Man that dude was hotwired. And you know what? Oh well.

If Rip says he could run a 4:30, there's no reason to doubt it.