DREW HUNTER TAKES DOWN GRANT FISHER IN BROOKS PR 2 MILE

I know hindsight's 50/50, but hear me out: Grant Fisher would have won this race if he'd waited until the final 150m or 100m to make an explosive move. He says in his post-race interview that he executed his race plan, but I think he fell into the trap of refusing to adjust the plan based on circumstances. Prior to yesterday's race, no high-school runner had been able to hang with any move Grant has made in the last two years, so he and his coach no doubt believed that the trend would continue (which is why the strategy of "wait until the last 400/300m, then let it rip" strategy was what they'd settled on).

When D. Hunter matched his move at the bell (and again all along the backstretch when the two really let things fly), I believe that a more experienced (read: not quite so dominant as Grant) racer would have altered his strategy, instead opting to trail after being denied on a pass. Again, I don't fault Grant or his coach for their strategy, and there's a strong chance Hunter would have won either way (the kid is a hoss), but I hope Grant learns from this and learns to make mid-race strategy adjustments as situations unfold.

Coulda gone with the GF strategy and just ran everyone off their feet.

No, you're wrong. Drew would have went harder earlier and not let it go down to the last 150m or 100m. Your theory is all wet. I know Drew and he would have taken Fisher down one way or the other.

Well, I was there, trackside, and having watched the whole eight laps close-up, I really don't think there was any way Fisher could have won yesterday unless--and this is a big maybe--Hunter and others hadn't pushed the pace. Hunter has a great kick, too, obviously. Now, if the winning time had been 9:00 and everyone had just coasted and run a kicker's race, Fisher might have won a flat-out 100-200 meter sprint because the kid has a really great kick. But when Hunter laid down a 54-second last lap AND had the inside on the turn, Fisher just couldn't hang. Hunter broke him in the last 40 yards with another gear that Fisher just didn't have. The break was clearly visible. Believe Fisher--he knows what he's talking about and he's a great kid: the better runner won the race yesterday, and Hunter had an extra gear. It doesn't mean Hunter is the better runner every day; Fisher is still the king of American high school distance running this year. But when you're that evenly matched with your competition, someone's going to have it on any given day, and someone's not. Fisher gave no excuses, so don't give him any. These guys are the young future of American distance running if they just stay healthy and motivated. It's a wonderful thing to see that kind of talent fulfilled.

Upside of both runners will be great to experience. No disrespect to Hunter but Fisher busted 3 high quality miles in 3 previous weekends, so not winning yesterday, is not a huge surprise

jjjjjj wrote:

You can say that Fisher is more of a miler, and it is true that in track he competes almost exclusively at the mile, but he is two time XC champ at 5k. This kid Hunter has got to be a tremendous talent to do this in this fashion, as a junior.

Except for when he was a sophomore and he was undefeated over 3200 and ran 9:04 and he won the State Championship in the 3200 and placed second to T.J. Carey (that all-time great) and an 8:32.65 in the 3000 at the USATF World Youth Trials. When he was a junior he was undefeated at both distances and he ran 8:55 in April and won both State Titles and the Brooks PR Invite in 8:51y.

And then this year when he won the State 3200m for the third time in 8:53 and ran the Brooks PR Invite at 2M.

Other than that, I guess you could say "that Fisher is more of a miler, and it is true that in track he competes almost exclusively at the mile..."

Hunter won the race, Hunter was amazing, leave it at that. Hunter won indoor Nationals in 8:48y (that is amazing, but otherworldly for a junior). Running 8:42y as a junior is an all-time class record, is it not?

Great story about Lindgren. He's easily a tied #1 for me for best HS distance runner ever (along with Ryun, obviously). Love that he was racing goddamn 26-year-olds.

Chapa's 10,000M time alone warrants him a spot in the top ten. The fact that Rupp, in 13:37 shape, couldn't even break 29, shows the kind of craziness Chapa's 10,000M time was. Has any HSer broken 29 but him?

Jeff Nelson held the 2M it for about 29 years. 8:36.3.

Look into it.

J.R. wrote:

Oh? wrote:

That 60 second lap in the middle did the job of breaking the Soviets, but also hurt him as well (just less). 14:07 for the first three miles, coming back with a 15:10 to close isn't exactly ideal splits.

14:07 for 3 miles is 14:37 for 5k.

Thus the splits were 14:37 and 14:40.

Yeah, realized something like that after I posted: 10k is 345m longer than 6 miles, and at the pace he was running in miles 2 and 3 he probably closed that in about 55-60 seconds, meaning the last 3 miles were probably closer to 14:10-14:15. Actually pretty well paced despite that absurd surge.

Hulst ran 28:55.0

McChesney is #3 at 29:06.8, since Lindgren's 29:02 was a month too late.

No one else under 29:30 -- Parker Stinson (2010) is #6 with a 29:32.23, and for another name some might remember, Cheserek is #8 with a 29:42.31

Oh? wrote:

Hulst ran 28:55.0

McChesney is #3 at 29:06.8, since Lindgren's 29:02 was a month too late.

No one else under 29:30 -- Parker Stinson (2010) is #6 with a 29:32.23, and for another name some might remember, Cheserek is #8 with a 29:42.31

It is worth noting that McChesney ran that time as a sophomore, and he was a regular-age sophomore. I believe he ran low-8:50s as a soph as well.

Some of the greatest who were not mentioned were not because they did not have a Footlocker Championships to go to. Also, there was no organized Indoor National Championships or an outdoor one.

It is a LOT easier to quantify greatness when there are National Championships in XC, indoors and outdoors that nearly everyone runs.

Also, someone like Craig Virgin is be more impressive when you understand that he ran the mile doubling back after a 2-mile ... and still ran under 4:10 pretty often.

They did not run the 2-mile as often in the 60s (and there was nearly nobody under 9:00) ... making Lindgren, Liquori and Pre even more impressive.

Since Fisher won 5 State track titles (and one 2nd) and two FL champs, and the Brooks 2M last year, and 4:00, 3:59y, and 4:01y this year (as well as tons of other stuff) he is one of the all-time greats. Whether he is top-5 or top-20 all-time is not up to me.

One thing to take into account is how often runners from the 60s and 70s ran races (18-30 races in outdoors alone) ... and how little today's runners do.

He's 17. The high quality mile races that you speak of didn't do squat to him. Easy to say "after" he loses.

pert wrote:

Upside of both runners will be great to experience. No disrespect to Hunter but Fisher busted 3 high quality miles in 3 previous weekends, so not winning yesterday, is not a huge surprise

This is a great thread. Ritz is a legend ONLY for XC/5k on the track. NOT the 2mile and obviously not the mile.

If fisher hasn't raced so much prior to Brooks, it would've been closer

Hhsshehsbe wrote:

This is a great thread. Ritz is a legend ONLY for XC/5k on the track. NOT the 2mile and obviously not the mile.

If fisher hasn't raced so much prior to Brooks, it would've been closer

A one-mile race a week before takes nothing out of a runner at his absolute peak. Fisher was ready for the two-mile. We're not talking about a hard 10k a week before, or even a hard 5k. With Fisher's 3:59 a week ago, he was at his absolute peak, and he beat Hunter in that race when Hunter stumbled on the curb. They're evenly matched. Fisher has a fantastic two-year record, but Hunter's right there now. Fisher ran by far his PR, and so did Hunter. I repeat, don't make excuses for Fisher because he's not making any. He'll get his wins over Hunter in the future, I believe, and Hunter will get his over Fisher. If they stay healthy and motivated, they're going to both be college stars.

Ok, Fisher's 3:59 was two weeks before Brooks. Still, he smashed his two-mile PR at Brooks. He was at his peak to do that. Fisher's great, but give it a rest--someone else can be great, too, especially since Hunter has another year of high school coming up.

Here's the video of Fisher beating Hunter a week earlier. If you want to give somebody and excuse, Hunter obviously stumbles, and Fisher gets the lead. But notice that even though he's going all-out he doesn't pull away from Hunter. Neither does Hunter gain. They both have great finishing speed.

http://www.milesplit.com/videos/94835/2015-adidas-boys-dream-mile-hq-version

[quote]Reality Guy3 wrote:

He's 17. The high quality mile races that you speak of didn't do squat to him. Easy to say "after" he loses. [quote]pert wrote:

^^^^^This^^^^^

He's in great shape and those mile races did not hurt him at all. You guys are too much as you're always trying to over think everything. Grant was peaked and ready for a great 2 mile race, which he produced. He finished a second behind someone who was better on that day. You guys who think those hard mile races hurt him are delirious.

anacondarunner wrote:

Looks like that discussion of whether Grant was the 4th best HSer of all time may have been a bit premature.

He was probably a little tired after having run several high profile races with in 2 weeks. A 2x FLNC winner and sub-4 miler is with out a doubt better than 8:43.

Tired? Who do you coach, yourself to 4 hour marathons? Grant was not a little tired. He's young and had plenty of time in between. Please do us all a favor and go back to your local 5k group meetings, you'll sound more intelligent there. A TrackCoach?, are you serious?

TrackCoach wrote:

anacondarunner wrote:

Looks like that discussion of whether Grant was the 4th best HSer of all time may have been a bit premature.

He was probably a little tired after having run several high profile races with in 2 weeks. A 2x FLNC winner and sub-4 miler is with out a doubt better than 8:43.