Mary Cain Is Taking a Break from the Nike Oregon Project

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

broken arrow wrote:

?????? what, take a good look at the east African woman, or even Molly Huddle, Jenny Simpson, Shannon Rowbury, etc. you cannot dispute the weight issue.

I'm sure they all weigh more than they did in high school and they are running fine.

I bet they are also much stronger. Not aerobic strength (although that's stronger as well), but muscular strength. Cain needs to do develop muscular strength to support her bigger body.

Just Another LRC Idiot wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

I'm sure they all weigh more than they did in high school and they are running fine.

I bet they are also much stronger. Not aerobic strength (although that's stronger as well), but muscular strength. Cain needs to do develop muscular strength to support her bigger body.

Right, and NOP does a lot of strength training, so I don't see how weight would be the issue here.

It's more than weight...it's all about the q-angle.

Mary didn't have hips. Now she does. It's now more difficult for her to put her power down while running. Form isn't everything, but when your body geometry changes significantly, it's going to be reflected in your times.

Some runners adapt. Some don't. A break is probably good right now, as declining/stagnating times can cause stress and mental burnout.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

so I don't see how weight would be the issue here.

She looks like a larger person overall. She may have grown and inch or two and put on 10 or 12 pounds. If you don't see how that might affect a middle distance runner attempting to compete at an elite level then you should step away from the discussion since you would then be clueless.

Ectomorph wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

so I don't see how weight would be the issue here.

She looks like a larger person overall. She may have grown and inch or two and put on 10 or 12 pounds. If you don't see how that might affect a middle distance runner attempting to compete at an elite level then you should step away from the discussion since you would then be clueless.

I hate to agree on the weight issue, because it can't be fun for a 19 year old girl to read it. But look at the front of any good road race. The guys at the front are extremely skinny, and weight increases with time. Look at Rupp in those pictures--waif thin.

Weight matters. Whether that is the only thing here, I doubt.

I think she just went home because most nineteen year olds go home to see friends and family for summer break.

broken arrow wrote:

?????? what, take a good look at the east African woman, or even Molly Huddle, Jenny Simpson, Shannon Rowbury, etc. you cannot dispute the weight issue.

Erin Donohue...Brenda Martinez, Solinsky, etc etc...

It's not just weight or being skinny. It is about being strong and muscular. Convert the excess pudge to muscle. See Emma Coburn. She made it from a 17 year old Freshman to a successful pro.

I see to many really skinny runners getting injuries.

The biggest problem with the weight argument is that you have no evidence that she actually gained weight.

Weight Weenie wrote:

Mary is a good 10 pounds heavier, and that's really the only difference in her times. But she can't lose 10 pounds in a short amount of time and get good training in. So it makes sense to shut it down a bit.

Just about every professional loses a season or two because they didn't quite realize how important weight is, and then they have to figure out how to clean up their diet without just eliminating everything and starving. It's difficult.

I think she'll be back on top...next year. These things take time to learn.

10 pounds?

When an athletes only weighs 110, an extra 10 pound would make her look big. When a pro athletes gains weight they are usually talking about 2-3 pounds. They barely put on 10 pounds during the off season.

If I was a betting man I would say she never goes back.

If you dont think ten pounds of weight makes a difference you're delusional. I dropped 10 pounds of upper body muscle over the course of spring track and the difference was night and day (30 seconds or so in the steeple, not all the weight but definitely felt the difference late in races). And thats going from 170 to 160, which is a much smaller difference than 110-120.

uhhh... wrote:

I think she just went home because most nineteen year olds go home to see friends and family for summer break.

But she's not most nineteen year-olds. She sold her soul to the Devil and it's hot where he lives.

This was an ill advised move from the beginning. The reality is there is no one in Beaverton who gives a sh!t about Cain or her personal growth. She is red meat...human chattel to be used and then discarded when they're through with her. Nothing more.

She could have gone to Princeton, a good fit for her academics, and just as good for her athletics. All upside. With NOP she started out on the edge of a cliff. Sure theres a lot of updide there too, but that abyss is one step away. Now she has no options. She can't run Div I. She could possibly run Div. I or III. She is stuck with the obsessive micromanaging, temper tantrums, and counterproductive drama at NOP.

Then again, I could be all wrong here, and this is all part of the master plan.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Just Another LRC Idiot wrote:

I bet they are also much stronger. Not aerobic strength (although that's stronger as well), but muscular strength. Cain needs to do develop muscular strength to support her bigger body.

Right, and NOP does a lot of strength training, so I don't see how weight would be the issue here.

She's probably a non-responder to strength training like many women are.

You can say that now, but if she had gone to the NCAA and started running 4:15's we'd all be talking about what a mistake that was and how the NCAA is ruining her. Having a slump around age 18-20 is normal for female runners.

umass track wrote:

If you dont think ten pounds of weight makes a difference you're delusional. I dropped 10 pounds of upper body muscle over the course of spring track and the difference was night and day (30 seconds or so in the steeple, not all the weight but definitely felt the difference late in races). And thats going from 170 to 160, which is a much smaller difference than 110-120.

You're talking about a female who is 5'7 and listed at 110 lbs. Even if she went to 120, she's still very thin. She's a professional athlete, not a frat boy who gained a beer gut. Any weight she has gained is there for a reason and if it's not, her training should either burn it off or convert it to useful muscle. What I'm saying is blaming weight gain for someone to be "done" is a cop-out.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

umass track wrote:

If you dont think ten pounds of weight makes a difference you're delusional. I dropped 10 pounds of upper body muscle over the course of spring track and the difference was night and day (30 seconds or so in the steeple, not all the weight but definitely felt the difference late in races). And thats going from 170 to 160, which is a much smaller difference than 110-120.

You're talking about a female who is 5'7 and listed at 110 lbs. Even if she went to 120, she's still very thin. She's a professional athlete, not a frat boy who gained a beer gut. Any weight she has gained is there for a reason and if it's not, her training should either burn it off or convert it to useful muscle. What I'm saying is blaming weight gain for someone to be "done" is a cop-out.

I never said she was done. Who knows if she's even gained 10 pounds? Just making it clear that no matter how you slice it, 10 pounds gained is 10 more pounds one needs to carry around the track, and I highly doubt that Cain has added 10 pounds of functional leg and core muscle. weight is not an 'excuse,' its a factor that affects how fast you can run.

A few things:

1. She's not a team player and never was. High School is a big indicator of that. Because of that kind of personality she probably had a rough go of it in college.

2. Mom and Dad aren't there to care for her. This is not speaking specifically about her, lots of kids go through this. They aren't ready to leave the nest.

3. When you coach by phone are you really their coach? Because you read and follow "Daniel's formula" is he your coach?

4. Maybe Salazar and Nike is not the best fit for a kid? Even Rupp had a bit of distance at times when in college... Kinda. Plus home was a quick drive away.

5. As many mentioned, her body is changing. It will take time to adjust.

6. Running in college was such a great experience. It got a lot harder once having just a few guys as training partners. She's missed the whole "team" thing completely.

Racer Joe wrote:

You can say that now, but if she had gone to the NCAA and started running 4:15's we'd all be talking about what a mistake that was and how the NCAA is ruining her. Having a slump around age 18-20 is normal for female runners.

But she didn't go to NCAA, and no I wouldn't be talking about how the NCAA is ruining her.

She would have finished her freshman year at Princeton (probably) whose coaches are doing a far better job at developing young talent than Alberto is with already proven professionals. Finishing her freshman year with her friends and peers at Princeton vs finishing her freshman year at a school like Portland, a place where she has no connection other than as a mercenary for Nike? Are you kidding?