Mo Farah is one of the greats

RANK MARK WIND PLACE DATE

IAAF World Indoor Championships 2012 4 7:41.79 Istanbul (Ataköy Arena) 11 MAR 2012

6th IAAF/VTB Bank World Athletics Final 9 8:05.97 Stuttgart 13 SEP 2008

12th IAAF World Indoor Championships 6 7:55.08 Valencia (Velódromo Luis Puig), ESP 09 MAR 2008

5th IAAF World Athletics Final 3 7:49.89 Stuttgart 22 SEP 2007

4th IAAF World Athletics Final 12 8:00.60 Stuttgart 09 SEP 2006

5000 METRES

RANK MARK WIND PLACE DATE

14th IAAF World Championships 1 13:26.98 Moskva (Luzhniki) 16 AUG 2013

The XXX Olympic Games 1 13:41.66 London (Olympic Stadium) 11 AUG 2012

13th IAAF World Championships in Athletics 1 13:23.36 Daegu 04 SEP 2011

12th IAAF World Championships in Athletics 7 13:19.69 Berlin (Olympiastadion) 23 AUG 2009

The XXIX Olympic Games 6h2 13:50.95 Beijing (National Stadium) 20 AUG 2008

5th IAAF World Athletics Final 7 13:41.61 Stuttgart 23 SEP 2007

11th IAAF World Championships in Athletics 6 13:47.54 Osaka (Nagai Stadium) 02 SEP 2007

IAAF/Coca Cola World Junior Championships 10 14:12.21 Santiago de Chile 21 OCT 2000

10,000 METRES

RANK MARK WIND PLACE DATE

14th IAAF World Championships 1 27:21.71 Moskva (Luzhniki) 10 AUG 2013

The XXX Olympic Games 1 27:30.42 London (Olympic Stadium) 04 AUG 2012

13th IAAF World Championships in Athletics 2 27:14.07 Daegu 28 AUG 2011

SENIOR RACE

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38th IAAF World Cross Country Championships 20 34:09 Bydgoszcz (Myslecinek Park) 28 MAR 2010

35th IAAF World Cross Country Championships 11 37:31 Mombasa 24 MAR 2007

JUNIOR RACE

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IAAF World Cross Country Championships 59 28:06 Oostende 25 MAR 2001

SHORT RACE

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34th IAAF World Cross Country Championships 40 11:27 Fukuoka 01 APR 2006

31st IAAF World Cross Country Championships 74 12:13 Lausanne 29 MAR 2003

LONG RACE

RANK MARK WIND PLACE DATE

33rd IAAF World Cross Country Championships 37 37:50 Saint-Galmier 20 MAR 2005

He was 37th in World XC in his 22nd year. At 18, he was 59th. At 20, he was 74th. Even at 23, he was 40th. He was 11th at 24ish. From age 24 to 27, the prime of most athletes, from 2007 to 2010, at world and Olympic championships, he was 6th or 7th each time. Solve that one, Sherlock.

No, it doesn't sound like that at all.

There are gold medals and then there's doubling in 2 events, at consecutive OG and WCs.

Just as there are WRs and then there are WRs.

Komen's 3000m is so far beyond what anyone else has come close to, it's quite unlike, say, Geb's in 98 when he broke it by less than 1/2 second, and his only lasted 5 years or so. A far more impressive WR of Geb's was when he first broke 12:50, for example.

If we're talking about "one of the greats", surely that's how we look at things, no?

Well, we do. :)

I think it's fair to say those guys are all great athletes and middle distance runners.

4 of the 6 are in the list you gave earlier as being "greats", so it seems to me not unreasonable to say this achievement is pretty effin' great. :) Compound that with the same double at the WCs, and it's a strong claim. Compound that with what is easily the fastest 1500m time of any of those guys, and Mo has a reasonable claim to greatness.

IMO.

I don't think a WL time is part of the equation, any more than I think the folks pointing at what age he ran what matters, either. It's certainly not uncommon in today's athletics meets for the top guys to not run the WL times .. simply because of the way it works with pacers, etc.

3:38.xx, 12:53 and 12:48 is pretty effin' fast. :)

said .. there's a big difference between saying "didn't matter at all", and saying "didn't matter as much as x-y-z".

You hit the nail on the head when you refer to him not being able to compete because of his feet. There are SO many impediments to winning any WC or OG event. And those things affect a legacy. That's certainly a big part of what makes repeating those victories so amazing. The odds are so stacked against it.

But it also means at the end of the day, what ifs and coulda-woulda really only matters to one person on these boards.

I think Mo would LOVE to grab a WR or 3 ... and he knows the odds are tough for him to get either the 5 or the 10, or the 3. Hence he ran the 2-mile. But don't forget either how hard Geb and Komen pushed each other in their pursuit of even that WR. So it's not fair to simply completely dismiss the indoor 2M WR either.

I agree that this story is still unfolding, and Mo's legacy will hinge largely on these next 2 years. I don't think it hinges on whether he breaks KBs WRs though. There's more than one way to greatness (so I'm told).

Cheers

reader of the forums wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

The number of astonishing performances, particularly by athletes who get NOWHERE NEAR the same level outdoors - Dibaba and Rupp in particular - shows it's high time to disregard those performances like wind-aided sprints. They should not be legal.

Why shouldn't they be legal?

Because it's track, not gymnastics. No springboards.

adsfasddsff wrote:

He won't even win the Pre 10k

How's that now?

You asked for it wrote:

Also excluded from your definition we could add Samuel Wanjiru, history's 32d fastest marathoner.

Wanjiru ran one of the top 10 times in history at the time.

And Wanjiru has the fastest marathon PR of any Olympic Champion ever. Or World Champion.

No marathon runner has had a World Record and has won a championship marathon since 1964.

Wanjiru fits my definition as great when it comes to the marathon as well as anyone.

The great ones have the ability to put the hammer down, break the race open and run away from the field. (like Wanjiru in Beijing)

I was really hoping Farah would at least set a PR tonight.

He's just not great enough to take over after the rabbits are done and run away from the competition.

But he's very good.

Star wrote:

[quote]You asked for it wrote:

No marathon runner has had a World Record and has won a championship marathon since 1964.

.

Except Carlos Lopes.

It depends on what you mean by 'one of'. If you mean, one of the 20 best distance runners on the track, then, yes, no doubt. If you mean one of the 3 best distance runners period, then, no, no way. If he doubles this year and next and gets another WR, say, the 2 mile, even, then we can start debating where he is in the top 10 of all time distance runners (which I assume is what the OP meant). Right now, he's not even close and to argue that he is is to only reveal your ignorance of the history of the sport.

You asked for it wrote:

Star wrote:

[quote]You asked for it wrote:

No marathon runner has had a World Record and has won a championship marathon since 1964.

.

Except Carlos Lopes.

No. Lopes set his WR after he won in LA. DeCastella is the right answer. He held the WR when he won WC in 83 (though I don't think that Slazar's record had been stripped yet, he technically was the WR holder)

Link wrote:

You asked for it wrote:

Except Carlos Lopes.

No. Lopes set his WR after he won in LA. DeCastella is the right answer. He held the WR when he won WC in 83 (though I don't think that Slazar's record had been stripped yet, he technically was the WR holder)

How could it possibly matter if a runner set the world record and then won the Olympics, or won the Olympics and then set the world record? Having done both is what makes one great, whatever the order in which one did it.

said88 wrote:

I definitely disagree in your statement that Kenenisa Bekele is the greatest distance runner in history. It's still Gebrselassie. Please look at all his achievements.

..., as I made clear above, I claimed KB is ARGUABLY the goat. Not that he IS.

that said ....

Do you really think Geb at his best would've beaten KB at his best? Other than the 'thon, I don't see it happening. I think KB would've beaten Geb at anything from 1500m - 10 000m, and XC as well. They didn't race each other at their prime, no, but it's not like we're comparing Zatopek and Geb .. their respective eras were close enough that I think we can consider times and form and compare them. And KB wins across the board (except his 1500m pb, but I think he'd have beaten Geb at that distance for sure.

Regardless Geb's achievements (temporarily), if KB would've beaten him, doesn't that kinda make him the better athlete?

Interesting, I think comparing their achievements is a better argument that KB is greater than Geb. I think an in-his-prime Geb would have blown an in-his-prime KB's doors off.

You asked for it wrote:

Interesting, I think comparing their achievements is a better argument that KB is greater than Geb. I think an in-his-prime Geb would have blown an in-his-prime KB's doors off.

Really? Why? KB has better PRs at 3, 5 and 10 thousand.

[quote]Star wrote:

Pretty good.

When discussing greats you tend to look at those that have set world

Range - although Farah has better PRs than Aouita, Aouita held the WR in the 1500, 3000 and 5000 simultaneously while medalling in the 800 and getting a #1 ranking in the 10,000.'

Farah didn't duck the opposition like Aouita did in 84 he just went for a relatively easy win in the 5,000m. He also won more gold medals at world level overall than Aouita.

Aouita won 2 outdoor gold and 2 bronze at world level champs

Farah has already won 5 golds and one Silver

Aouita also never got the better of Cram who beat him in WC's and in his world record. Most of his big wins were at 5,000m which at that time was just a home for failed milers

Farah is also not finished yet judge him at the end of his career

Haile Gebrselassie took the world records down from 12:58 to 12:39, and from 26:52 to 26:22. Bekele then had a higher bar to shoot at. Of course it's harder to take time off now, given how much faster the records are, but I think if Haile Gebrselassie were 22 today he would break the 5000 and 10000 world records. Maybe 12:35 and 26:10.

Gotcha. I agree the "higher bar to shoot for" makes a huge difference in performance.

But apply that to this thread ... Mo doesn't have to run 26:20 to win today. The nature of racing is different now, for various reasons. If we can't compare PRs of guys who were so close together, on a timeline, as Geb and KB, it doesn't make sense to complain about Mo not running the same times they did either.

Another way of looking at it is how long did their respective WRs last: Geb got what, 5 years? KBs are still intact and nobody looks close to breaking them, unless Dejen drops that fabled 12:34 someone's been talking about.

Perspective is everything, look thru one window and you see a very different viewpoint than looking through another window. We tend to frame things so they'll fit what we want them to fit.

I'm not a Mo fan, but I think at some point his performances surpass the "he got lucky" attitude that has prevailed so much in here. He's the dominant 5/10 guy of the era.

Of course he also is unlucky that the records were 12:37 and 26:17 when he started. If this was 1995 he would be the GOAT with his current times.

Even if he doesn't need on to win, I still think not having a world record is a black mark for him, but I still think he was won enough that he is "great".

Wtfunny wrote:

You asked for it wrote:

Interesting, I think comparing their achievements is a better argument that KB is greater than Geb. I think an in-his-prime Geb would have blown an in-his-prime KB's doors off.

Really? Why? KB has better PRs at 3, 5 and 10 thousand.

It's really not easy to argue for something when the opposite constantly offers wrong "facts".

Gebrselassie has better PBs over 1500m and 3000m and 2 Miles. And over all road events.

I don't say he would have beaten Bekele while both in there prime. But in the 10000m, Gebrselassie probably hasn't reached his ultimate level. But Tergat and Hissou couldn't fight back anymore and Gebrselassie didn't had another run for time in his prime. If he could have run 26:17.53? I would say so, but for sure I don't know. (He himself was talking about running sub-26 after his last 10k-WR).

It really seems you havn't seen a lot from Haile in his prime. Not your fault if too young. But if your constantly argueing for Bekele I think you should start looking many of Gebrselassie races which you maybe have never seen. I know almost all the races from both of them (for sure I can't recallallf the respective values like splits, weather and so on) and I would never give a clear call in one or the other direction who would win when both in prime.

In the 1500m easily Gebrselassie, for the other distances really difficult to say. For 5000m and 10000m I probably tend to Gebrselassie; in the Marathon maybe to Bekele (even when Gebrselassie has the much better PB) because his Paris win was very impressive.

But no, it's impossible to say for 3000m and longer.

I'm sorry, you're right, Geb ran just over 1/2 sec faster then KB did (in crappy weather). Though given how hard Geb worked on the 2M WR and that distance, I think KB was definitely naturally a better 3000m runner than Geb. 6 of one, 1/2 dozen the other I guess.

The 5000m and 10 000m I think KB was simply better.

As for being "too young", hardly. I'm older than GB, if that helps.

What are you talking about .. Tergat challenged Geb right thru Sydney. Closest 10 000m final I've ever seen (thrilling race, I was there in Sydney, amazing race). So Tergat was still challenging him then. The next major championship, Geb was beaten by KB. So I'm not sure when this long period of time was that he had no competition. He broke Tergat's WR in 98.

I've watched plenty of Geb's races. I just think KB was better. And certainly his times at 5000m and 10 000m (their primary distances) were better. And if he stays healthy, I think he'll end up with a faster marathon PR as well.

They're both great athletes, I don't have a dog in the fight of "who's better".