wtf
just eat MEAT
wtf
just eat MEAT
A Duck wrote:
step right up wrote:Non story, but it will do well on Letsrun. Salazar orders legal, readily available supplement and even checks in with USADA. They try it out and don't get the gains. Put it on the shelf with beet juice, grape seed extract, on all of the other legal supplements that report to give 10% gains but don't work or do anything for elite athletes. These articles read more like a Nutramet infomercial than anything else. Pretty reaching IMO.
Regarding the iron, I think we're talking about 4-5 years ago. I think all of this is 4-5 years ago.
The stuff on Magness and Aerson is just weird. Not illegal, just weird. If this is all we've got, legal supplements, on the Nike Oregon Project from former "members" than yawn, yawn yawn. From my understanding from knowing a former member, Magness was fired in 2012 for just being a lousy coach. He didn't leave on his own accord. I didn't realize Magness competed for the NOP either. Was he that good?
BTW, I know quite a few endurance athletes (cyclists and long distance runners) that supplement with l carnitine. For years and well before this Nutramet company. I guess when Salazar's boys do it, though, it's bad.
More info on how Magness was a "lousy" coach, he seems to be doing really well with his athletes these days, getting the best out of them.
What I heard at the time was Magness hated, hated, hated the weather in Portland and wanted out.
Note also, that Magness Does Not have any "NDA," or "Non-Disparage" clause in his former Nike contract, so he can say anything he wants openly and does and has.
Have you read the contract?
Psst! A Duck is a NOP insider who claims he is not an insider.
injection injection injection wrote:
Former athletes at the Nike Oregon Project have described unease in the camp when L-carnitine was tested using injections. It is understood that two former members of the project contacted the US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) with concerns over its use. The USADA declined to say if it is investigating.
I've heard the same thing and have even mentioned it on here a few times in past threads. I heard it back in 2012- Salazar's group has been injecting L-carnitine to lower their body fat. Look at how gaunt some of their runners have been getting.
I also heard that the Hanson's group has been having some of their top runners take the oral supplement. They're pushing the legal limits, just like Salazar is doing.
Researched wrote:
WADA can ban any product they think has potential health risks.
No sh!t and they haven't banned L-C. But they could, but they haven't but they could ban any product they think has potential health risks...ad infinitum
Researched your repetition is boorish. As L-C has both been around for decades and researched for decades, you continuing to make the generic claim about banning product with potential health risks is asinine.
Someone stole my nic. -1/10, a**wipe.
LOL, someone chimes in who doesn't know how to do research.
heard it all before wrote:
I also heard that the Hanson's group has been having some of their top runners take the oral supplement. They're pushing the legal limits, just like Salazar is doing.
You are a Tom fool if you think both groups have the same "supplement" program.
There is no might... wrote:
"Same thing applies to potassium so should we ban that as well?"
Please provide the name of a peer-reviewed research paper that shows potassium has a impact on actual performance. If it does, then yes, it should be banned.
"Stop getting caught up in validating your point that he is dirty b/c he might be taking a supplement that is not banned."
Cute way of claiming, we can use it because WADA hasn't figured this out yet. And, there is no "might be", unless you chose to believe the statement attributed to Salazar are false. The paper reporting the statement has likely vetted them to avoid liability issues. So, the ball is in your court, to prove the statements are actually false.
I am fairly certain that H2O has a far larger impact on performance than either L-Carnitine or Potassium. So, should it be banned?
exvert wrote:
You are a Tom fool if you think both groups have the same "supplement" program.
Of course not and I didn't say that. Salazar has his athlete's popping pills at timed interval before the gun goes off. Who else does that?!
However, I do know for fact the Hanson's had a former athlete taking oral L-carnitine. Not a banned substance, and neither is spiking your sports drinks with Red Bull. They're pushing the limits of what's legal too but probably not to the extent that Salazar is doing.
step right up wrote:
I know quite a few endurance athletes (cyclists and long distance runners) that supplement with l carnitine. For years and well before this Nutramet company. I guess when Salazar's boys do it, though, it's bad.
I don't see anyone here giving anyone the ethical pass that you're implying exists for athletes who aren't "Salazar's boys" (and women). Presumably, anyone who has a problem with the NOPers taking L-carnitine would look askance at others taking it. But these nameless and faceless supplementers are not the subject of the article -- Salazar and his athletes are.
I believe that what people find most concerning is not the use of L-carnitine itself, but the directions Salazar has given his athletes regarding its use. Where he's not telling them to lie, he tells them to obfuscate. If he truly believed that what he was doing was aboveboard at every level, he wouldn't do this. Your version of the events as described depart noticeably from reality at several points.
I really don't have the time to read all the swill so can someone just tell me if the stuff is legal or not? And if someone can answer that can they potentially also tell me if it's illegal in any form - way it is taken or in a certain quantity?
WADA has a rule that if they don't know about something, and you know it enhances performance, they can after you after the fact. Thank the WADA lawyers for getting a rule included that covers bases that WADA is too lazy to investigate properly before the fact.
...they can *come* after you after the fact.
after reading this thread this morning i bought 500mg capsules. I will follow the 2 caps , 2hours before workouts that is on the directions.
if WADA wrote:
WADA has a rule that if they don't know about something, and you know it enhances performance, they can after you after the fact. Thank the WADA lawyers for getting a rule included that covers bases that WADA is too lazy to investigate properly before the fact.
Have they ever enforced that rule?
Not sure if they have. But, lawyers being lawyers it is bound to happen sooner or later. This catch all rule falls under WADA's "spirit of sport" rule, if one could call it that.
Might Man wrote:
I am fairly certain that H2O has a far larger impact on performance than either L-Carnitine or Potassium. So, should it be banned?
Hey, how about the time Coe was doping when it wasn't illegal? Was that doping?
If Salazar is pushing sketchy injections, it's like 1992 all over again.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dope-and-glory-10-04-2001/Eagerly awaiting USATF's response. What's that? Nike what? Yeah, that sponsorship deal is all good.
Here is the WADA official rules text. Pilfer from an old LRC post, with a current document link provided.
Anything that WADA decides it needs to be. The rules can change at any time to cover the unexpected.
4.3.1 A substance or method shall be considered for inclusion on the Prohibited List if WADA determines that the substance or method meets any two of the following three criteria
4.3.1.1
Medical or other scientific evidence, pharmacological effect or experience that the substance or method, alone or in combination with other substances or methods, has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance;
4.3.1.2
Medical or other scientific evidence, pharmacological effect or experience that the Use of the substance or method represents an actual or potential health risk to the Athlete;
4.3.1.3
WADA's determination that the Use of the substance or method violates the spirit of sport described in the Introduction to the Code.
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada-redline-2015-wadc-to-2009-wadc-en.pdf
clerk wrote:
I've never heard of it....
Really? You've never heard of carnitine? Seriously? In all of your studies in all of your life you have NEVER EVER heard of freaking carnitine?!? May I ask what your education level is? May I suggest that you maybe crack a book from time to time and learn a scientific fact or two?