Elite Runners who were Mediocre in High School

newname wrote:

So an 8:45 for Tom McCardle and 4:16 for Levins is mediocre?

What kind of times won your guys' Conference Meet?

4:04 / 8:54?

Tom's run was a 3,000m not 3200m

runningchicken wrote:

Ben Bruce is a great example of a mediocre HS runner who developed into a solid runner after college. He was a #4/#5 guy in HS and after attending Cal Poly SLO, he became one of the top steeple chasers in the US.

Could it be that he was not mediocre, but that he just was not committed? I mean he did not even run track, he played GOLF for God's sake? How much less committed could you be?

This from this USATF bio:

About Ben[\b]

"

Bruce graduated from Mt. Carmel high school in San Diego, Calif., where he played a variety of sports including cross-country, soccer and golf. Despite being one of the best steeplechasers in the country, Bruce didn’t compete in track and field in high school. He snuck over to the team to run the mile just once, but that got him suspended from the golf team, which is where he spend most of his time. He then went on to attend San Diego Community College where he talked the coach into letting him try the steeplechase to “break up the monotony” of cross country. After two years in San Diego he transferred to Cal Poly. A former Big West Conference champion, he set a new PR of 8:19.10 in 2011, marking the fifth year in a row that he has lowered his PR. Engaged to marathoner and McMillan Elite teammate Stephanie Rothstein.

"

I don't know how good he was at XC, but I can hardly judge him mediocre if he never ran a track race.

Also, he was not a "solid runner", he was an 8:19 Steepler. That is World Class.

A 32:30 10k runner is a "solid runner".

newname wrote:

Would you really consider McGorty to be mediocre?

You need to re read the post you responded to if this is what you believe the poster wrote.

So here's a fun fact, also pretty inspirational.

Did you know that Daniel Tapia, Diego Estrada and Cristian Sorratos all went to the same school out of high school? Not UC San Diego, or Arizona State or even some smaller program like Humboldt state. They went to Hartnell college. Never heard of it?

Because it's a community college. In salinas, CA there's a whole lot of talent and not a lot of money for great coaches. Because of this, these guys run "mediocre" times in high school (Estrada was a bit more impressive, but not even the best in the section). Even if they were running well, they had nothing on the bigger schools in Southern California for any major championships. Yet the key is that a good coach can tell talent when he sees it. And you've got talent if you're runnin 15:40 over 5k, and coaches will notice that. I'm not sure how your coaching is in high school, but you will most likely take off to levels that you wouldn't believe once you can get to a true, dedicated coach.

The other moral of the story is that for some people, that high intensity training is great and they do really well after a year or two. But some need to ease into it a bit more, so as they don't get burnt out. Like I said, it's a really big jump from high school to college. Coaches for JCs also are more focused on keeping you healthy and appealing for transferring to a good school.

I'm not sure how you're training conditions are or anything, but you have plenty of talent that a lot of people would go crazy for. Keep working hard and really evaluate all of your options.

Best of luck!

Frank Shorter 4:32/9:32 HS OG gold and silver medals

Kenny Moore 4:35 HS 2:11;35 marathon OG 4th world ranked at least twice

Dick Beardsley 4:35 ? HS

Matt Elliot great example

Dr Joe Vigil gave an example a 4:52 kid he coached down to 4:01.

so you never know

perseverance, hard consistent progressive work load , good coaching, right environment

How much do you believe in yourself? How much inner drive (you either have this or you don't it isn't something you can hope or try for , it is innate) and motivation only you can answer that

one last one for now John Landy 4;42 mile at 18

Steve on a cell in Brooklyn wrote:

newname wrote:

So an 8:45 for Tom McCardle and 4:16 for Levins is mediocre?

What kind of times won your guys' Conference Meet?

4:04 / 8:54?

Tom's run was a 3,000m not 3200m

Yes, I realize that. 8:45 is equal to a 9:23 3200m. Do you consider that mediocre? In my state, you would place top-5 or top-3 every year with a 9:23.

I realize that most 28:18 10k runners usually run under 9:10 in HS, but that does not change the immutable laws of words.

That is why I said do you consider 4:04/8:54 to be above average if you consider 9:23 to be mediocre.

newname wrote:

Steve on a cell in Brooklyn wrote:

Tom's run was a 3,000m not 3200m

Yes, I realize that. 8:45 is equal to a 9:23 3200m. Do you consider that mediocre? In my state, you would place top-5 or top-3 every year with a 9:23.

I realize that most 28:18 10k runners usually run under 9:10 in HS, but that does not change the immutable laws of words.

That is why I said do you consider 4:04/8:54 to be above average if you consider 9:23 to be mediocre.

Where do you live? Fvcking Wyoming with plains indians or something?

necro wrote:

Where do you live? Fvcking Wyoming with plains indians or something?

Michigan, you know, the state that has those three guys that have beaten everyone?

2014 DIVISION 1 - State Meet -

3,200 Meter Run – 1. Grant Fisher, Grand Blanc, 9:07.11. 2. Ben Hill,

Royal Oak, 9:09.34. 3. Alec Toreki, Romeo, 9:20.22. 4. Ryan Robinson,

Waterford Mott, 9:22.36. 5. Kyle Dotterrer, Traverse City Central,

9:23.05. 6. Parker Eisengruber, Saginaw Heritage, 9:23.91. 7. Kevin

Hall, Saline, 9:24.24. 8. Isaac Harding, Rockford, 9:28.69.

Where do you live that State Meet is so great?

I ask again, do you consider 9:23 mediocre?

Mike Rutt only ran 1:57 in high school

When did McCardle run an 8:45 3k in HS?

His senior year state meet he ran a 9:36 2 mile. No one in New England except the preps runs 3k.

Even in the weak 90s there were hundreds of HS boys faster than that every year. How many of them got 2nd in NCAA XC 4 years later?

I'm a high school runner from RI and we run 1500/3000 so....

callinBS wrote:

When did McCardle run an 8:45 3k in HS?

His senior year state meet he ran a 9:36 2 mile. No one in New England except the preps runs 3k.

Even in the weak 90s there were hundreds of HS boys faster than that every year. How many of them got 2nd in NCAA XC 4 years later?

I can't find it now, despite trying hard. I saw it in a legit article.

To answer your question: 1. Just Tom McCardle. But that doesn't change the definition of mediocre. Or change the concept of whether he was. If he indeed only ran 9:36 then I would say he is one of the best examples of someone rising from AVERAGE in HS to National Class later.

Tom could have been better in HS if he had worked at it. His Father was a stud 10k runner.

I would say that Pat Porter was the best example of this, and I think someone already brought him up.

4:29y / 9:43y and then developed into a world class 10k and XC runner. Top 10 in the world many times.

newname wrote:

Tom could have been better in HS if he had worked at it. His Father was a stud 10k runner.

What does his father's ability have to do with this?

runningchicken wrote:

Ben Bruce is a great example of a mediocre HS runner who developed into a solid runner after college. He was a #4/#5 guy in HS and after attending Cal Poly SLO, he became one of the top steeple chasers in the US.

This is the best example on this thread, hands down. Bruce very average as a Sundevil.

This is from back in the day also. Shawn Found. Didn't break 5 minutes for the 1600 in HS. Went on to be All- American at Colorado. Fourth in the Olympic Trials in 2000. Made the US World's Team for Torino '97.

Dennis Kimetto

Hicham El Guerouch

Ramzi

Makhloufi

douglas burke wrote:

Bill Rodgers, Frank Shorter, Steve Scott.

Bill Rodgers was a state champion.

Alan Webb