Official sub-17 5k training and racing thread 2014

My season is over because of my foot. I can't do anything that puts any weight on my foot, and can't be in water. I ran a 17:33 a month or so ago but the terrain was about 40% asphalt and 60% gravel so it was rough footing for most of the course, and I live in Kansas so there aren't to many hills around here

I'd try to keep the mileage fairly close to what you have been doing. Some good workouts are 8x800 60-120s rest, 5-8x1k 60-120s rest,4x1 mile 90-180s rest. Those are some general workouts, just think longer intervals @5k pace with short recoveries to teach your body to get used to 5k pace. Best of luck to you

Should I do the workouts every week? How many of them a week?

The generally accepted rule is no more than 3 quality days each week. So 2-3 is good, maybe do your long run one day, intervals one day, and a fartlek or tempo another day. Remember not to have quality days back to back, you'll need at least one easy day in between your quality runs.

Mr_Nobody wrote:

The generally accepted rule is no more than 3 quality days each week. So 2-3 is good, maybe do your long run one day, intervals one day, and a fartlek or tempo another day. Remember not to have quality days back to back, you'll need at least one easy day in between your quality runs.

Here's what I'm going to be doing in 3 weeks from now, is this a good example:

(for the sake of simplicity, let's assume 5k pace is 5:25/mi)

Mon: 8x800 @5K Pace W/400m jog (2:37-2:42)

Tue: 45 Minute Recovery Run (around 5-6 miles)

Wed. AM: 30 Min Easy (4 Miles)

PM: 16x400 @76-79s; 200m jog in 60s

Thu: 45 Minute Recovery run (5-6 miles) 7:30-7:50/mi

Fri: 30 Minute Easy Run (4 Miles) 7:10-7:30/mi

Sat: 90 Minute Long Run (30 Min at 8:00/mi; The Last 60 Min at 6:40-7:10/mi, with 10 min cool down) 12-13 miles

Sun: Rest

(about 40-50 MPW)

Critique this. Does this look good? What should I change? I certainly need this criticized before I actually do it!

^^^^^^^^^

This is what my first week of speed will look like so far, after coming from 24 weeks of Base training 50-60 MPW.

That's 3 Quality workouts (Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday) with 45 min recovery runs and some easy runs in between.

That is just the first week. I'm hoping to build up to running 1000-1200m reps on Mondays over the weeks, and up to 20-25 400s on Wednesdays. Some weeks I'll do something like Long slower intervals @5k-10k pace on Monday and shorter faster 3k/5k stuff on Wednesdays with a 30 Min Tempo Run Friday (no long run, just easy recovery Saturday)

And what do I do if I have a race that week? Or a race 2 weeks in a row? Do I still do workouts that week or take it easy the whole week? Should I have a hard, heavy week for a target 5k race the week after? Thanks!

I would recommend moving the second quality day to Thurs. that would give you more time after your long intervals on Mon. if that works with your schedule. Then I personally only intervals once a week, I prefer a tempo run or a fartlek style workout, it's up to you though. Another thing is if you have been running 60mpw I'd increase the length of your recovery and easy runs to an hour long, and don't aim for a specific pace on them, just run by feel. On having races it depends how you feel, but if I had a race Sat. I'd do my long run the week before, and the workout on Mon. just don't kill yourself in it. The rest of the week would just be easy running and maybe some strides.

Mr_Nobody wrote:

I would recommend moving the second quality day to Thurs. that would give you more time after your long intervals on Mon. if that works with your schedule. Then I personally only intervals once a week, I prefer a tempo run or a fartlek style workout, it's up to you though. Another thing is if you have been running 60mpw I'd increase the length of your recovery and easy runs to an hour long, and don't aim for a specific pace on them, just run by feel. On having races it depends how you feel, but if I had a race Sat. I'd do my long run the week before, and the workout on Mon. just don't kill yourself in it. The rest of the week would just be easy running and maybe some strides.

That makes sense, I'll alternate Mondays too, some weeks it'll be 1000s, 1200s (maybe even 1600s?) but other days it'll be tempo runs or Fartleks, with 60 min recovery runs the day after (at 7:40-7:50/mi) and 30 or 45 minute runs at 7:00-7:20 pace on other easy days.

Monday's the long intervals/tempos, Thursdays are the true fast stuff, and Saturdays are long runs or races.

I have one other question; and it's about the workouts themselves. Is 16x400 with 200m jog too much or would this be a good 5K workout? Like, which one's better or more effective?

16x400 w/200m jog (76-79s)

or

16x400 w/60s walk rest (72-75s)

Assuming 5K pace is 5:25/mi or 82s 400s.

The first one would be harder

Mr_Nobody wrote:

The first one would be harder

So I should do this one then? I'm self-coached, I need all the help I can get.

Break_16 wrote:

Mr_Nobody wrote:

The first one would be harder

So I should do this one then? I'm self-coached, I need all the help I can get.

Not necessarily, the first one would more work on your endurance, while the second would work more on your speed. So it depends what kind of benefit you are trying to reap from this workout.

Mr_Nobody wrote:

Break_16 wrote:

So I should do this one then? I'm self-coached, I need all the help I can get.

Not necessarily, the first one would more work on your endurance, while the second would work more on your speed. So it depends what kind of benefit you are trying to reap from this workout.

Should I be working on both or speed on Thursday and Endurance on Monday with 800s/1000s/1200s?

Bump

I'd recommend that you read Daniel's Running Formula. It can help you alot with self-coaching

good workout last night - 1600/ 6 x 400 / 1000

5:31/78/3:24

And it wasn't very hard

I think I am in the best shape of my adult life - but I'm looking at a bunch of slow xc races for the next month or two. Wish I had a flat fast 5k to do.

Post up workouts if you can - I need some ideas since I am mostly self coached.

Workouts/Runs since my PR on Saturday:

Sunday: 7 miles very slow and painful

Monday: Scheduled Off Day

Tuesday: 7 miles normal

Today: 4 x mile @ 5K pace w/ 3 min rest. 5:28, 5:27, 5:25, 5:17. This workout felt really good, and I'm definitely recovered from my race. I think I'm really close to sub 17.

I'll throw my hat in the ring. Looking forward to reading through the thread after posting this. I will admit that my attaining this by the end of the year is unlikely, though.

Background:

More of a mid distance guy in high school/college, despite bouts of high mileage and multiple attempts to convert to a distance guy. PR for 5000m 15:22 in a pretty well paced time trial at the end of a season of racing 800m/mile.

I'm nearly a decade removed from college running, with half of that being spotty training at best. 20-25 pounds over racing weight at the moment, which is my first hurdle I'm trying to overcome.

I'd guess I'm in 18 flat shape right now. In the last 2 months, I've done an 8 mile tempo in 6:25 pace. 8x800m in 2:43ish average. 12x400m in 74ish average. Really seem to struggle at VO2 max pace as opposed to progressive tempos or mile pace or shorter workouts. Going to take some time to scale back workouts and put in a base phase to try to lose some weight.

Goal #1 is to extend my sub 5 streak to 14 years. Then I'll try to start working on sub 17.

Good luck all! I look forward to reading about your work and staying motivated.

Future sub 17 wrote:

Workouts/Runs since my PR on Saturday:

Sunday: 7 miles very slow and painful

Monday: Scheduled Off Day

Tuesday: 7 miles normal

Today: 4 x mile @ 5K pace w/ 3 min rest. 5:28, 5:27, 5:25, 5:17. This workout felt really good, and I'm definitely recovered from my race. I think I'm really close to sub 17.

That's a great workout. I prefer to do 5 of them, but I agree you should definitely be close and could get sub 17 on a good day.

Welcome aboard! Getting back down to racing weight will help a lot. Sub-5 mile is roughly equivalent to a 17 minute 5k, just gotta have the endurance.

Looking good, Future! I'll post a couple of my workouts.

This was last week on Wednesday before racing on Saturday.

5x1000 w/400 jog rest: 3:22, 3:24, 3:23, 3:22, 3:19

Today 5x1200 w/ 400 jog rest: 4:18, 4:13, 4:09, 4:07, 4:04

I wanted to take today's workout a little easier so I started slower and cut the pace down. Next 5k is in a week and a half. It has less elevation change than the previous race, but gains 100 ft from 1.5 to 2.5 miles so it will be tough to reach the goal time. It's my last chance to go for sub 17 until December, however, so I have to go for it.