*1. Bernard Lagat
2. Frank Shorter
3. Galen Rupp
4. Jim Ryun
5. Bill Rodgers
*Bernie gets the nod because its a much tougher era and he had much more longevity.
Also, I think for Rupp to move #2 he needs to do more internationally. If Rupp ends up being double gold champ in 2015 World Champs, 2016 Rio, and runs a sub 204 marathon and medals in the Marathon in 2020 Olympics, then he moves to #1, but I don't see that happening.
Well, 1952 was 62 years ago ... so it doesn't qualify as the last 40 years.
However,I would be very interested to know if you fully understand the times that Rupp has run compared to Horace ... after all the human body has not changed that much, and there were very few people running the steeple in 1952 and the competition was not much and the times were not very good.
He doesn't deserve to be in the discussion ... it's like the national record for some prep school in rowing in 1952 .. all six of them.
Sorry, he does not even hold a candle to what Rupp just did. I would have acknowledged Ashenfelter as a great runner of the past, if you didn't need to bring him up in the present during Rupp's time. You should have simply given Rupp credit, then others will be given credit.
NotAustin18 wrote:
*1. Bernard Lagat
2. Frank Shorter
3. Galen Rupp
4. Jim Ryun
5. Bill Rodgers
*Bernie gets the nod because its a much tougher era and he had much more longevity.
Also, I think for Rupp to move #2 he needs to do more internationally. If Rupp ends up being double gold champ in 2015 World Champs, 2016 Rio, and runs a sub 204 marathon and medals in the Marathon in 2020 Olympics, then he moves to #1, but I don't see that happening.
Next week when your new favorite runner is Meb, you will put him as #1.
I personally wouldn't put a guy that tested positive for epo on any list save for greatest cheats.
And in no way is Rupp ahead of Ryun. Ryun set WORLD RECORDS as a TEENAGER. He held the mile world record longer than anyone save for El G. His WORLD JUNIOR record in the mile stood for 31 years, high school mile record 36 years. He STILL holds american junior records at 800m, 1500m, mile, and 2 miles. Also the junior class record in the mile (only junior under 4 minutes).
You can't compare Ryun to Rupp as they specialized in different distances. Rupp did things that weren't accomplished in the US for several decades. And don't compare the world in 1965 with the world in 2014.
Jim Ryun may still be the best middle distance runner of his era, but Rupp is the best long distance runner ever raised in the US as of 2014 for the past few decades.
Can we agree with that?
NotAustin18 wrote:
*1. Bernard Lagat
2. Frank Shorter
3. Galen Rupp
4. Jim Ryun
5. Bill Rodgers
*Bernie gets the nod because its a much tougher era and he had much more longevity.
Also, I think for Rupp to move #2 he needs to do more internationally. If Rupp ends up being double gold champ in 2015 World Champs, 2016 Rio, and runs a sub 204 marathon and medals in the Marathon in 2020 Olympics, then he moves to #1, but I don't see that happening.
Any such top-5 list that doesn't include Craig Virgin is suspect, unless perhaps "greatest American distance runner list" isn't the same as "greatest American distance racer list". One can make a strong case for including Rupp on the first, but it's not so clear that as strong a case can be made for the inclusion of Nefarious G in the second.
1. Salazar
2. Rodgers
3. Shorter
4. Ryun
5. Rupp
real history wrote:
NotAustin18 wrote:*1. Bernard Lagat
2. Frank Shorter
3. Galen Rupp
4. Jim Ryun
5. Bill Rodgers
*Bernie gets the nod because its a much tougher era and he had much more longevity.
Also, I think for Rupp to move #2 he needs to do more internationally. If Rupp ends up being double gold champ in 2015 World Champs, 2016 Rio, and runs a sub 204 marathon and medals in the Marathon in 2020 Olympics, then he moves to #1, but I don't see that happening.
Next week when your new favorite runner is Meb, you will put him as #1.
I personally wouldn't put a guy that tested positive for epo on any list save for greatest cheats.
And in no way is Rupp ahead of Ryun. Ryun set WORLD RECORDS as a TEENAGER. He held the mile world record longer than anyone save for El G. His WORLD JUNIOR record in the mile stood for 31 years, high school mile record 36 years. He STILL holds american junior records at 800m, 1500m, mile, and 2 miles. Also the junior class record in the mile (only junior under 4 minutes).
Haha yeah I'm definitely wishy-washy, but Lagat is where its at. Just look at his accolades, credentials and longevity. And the failed EPO was stored wrong so the B sample came back positive.
Ryun ran those records so young because he ran himself into the ground and had a short career. He has an olympic silver, Rupp also has an olympic silver. It's not what you do when you're young, its what you do over an entire career. Rupp, so far, has done more.
Rupp has equaled Ryun's medal count, and has a longer career with lots of accomplishments. Sure Rupp will never run a world record, but with the exception of KIP Keino, the East Africans weren't a factor yet on the track. If you take out all the East Africans today, guess what? Rupp would also have a world record. So think about that.
NotAustin18 wrote:
Ryun ran those records so young because he ran himself into the ground and had a short career.
Almost all of the runners of yesterday had short careers. The benefactors you have today did not exist. There were no career runners like you have today. Most runners of yesterday had to get real jobs. Fascinating.
1 Jim Ryun
2 Frank Shorter
3 George Young (4 Olympics, Bronze in 1968)
4 Steve Prefontaine
5 Gerry Lindgren
NotAustin18 wrote:
Ryun ran those records so young because he ran himself into the ground and had a short career.
The Ryun of the 1966-1967 season broke all the mid distance WRs and was basically unbeatable. Then he got mono. He was never the same again.
But if Ryun is the GOAT and he could NOT make:
His church baseball team;
His junior high basketball team; and
His junior high track and field team....
What does it say about the rest of them?
NotAustin18 wrote:
Rupp has equaled Ryun's medal count, and has a longer career with lots of accomplishments. Sure Rupp will never run a world record, but with the exception of KIP Keino, the East Africans weren't a factor yet on the track. If you take out all the East Africans today, guess what? Rupp would also have a world record. So think about that.
I'm surprised you're the only one to bring this up. By the mid 90s, all hopes of an American setting a WR on the track in a distance event was long gone. And ten years later the same thing happened with the marathon.
Ryun was great but beating a bunch of white guys is relatively easy (see this year's Pre 5k).
1) Lagat
2) Rupp
3) Ryun
4) Webb
5) Meb
6) Pre
7) George Young
8) Shorter
9) Ritz
10) Lingren
Is it fair to say Lagat is the best American Distance runner when he's not American born? Same goes for others on the list.
webb beat him in a 5k road race just a few years ago
1) Lagat
2) Ryun
3) Webb
4) Meb
5) Pre
Rupp and other in the next 5.
Rudiger wrote:
NotAustin18 wrote:Rupp has equaled Ryun's medal count, and has a longer career with lots of accomplishments. Sure Rupp will never run a world record, but with the exception of KIP Keino, the East Africans weren't a factor yet on the track. If you take out all the East Africans today, guess what? Rupp would also have a world record. So think about that.
I'm surprised you're the only one to bring this up. By the mid 90s, all hopes of an American setting a WR on the track in a distance event was long gone. And ten years later the same thing happened with the marathon.
Ryun was great but beating a bunch of white guys is relatively easy (see this year's Pre 5k).
Yep, you got put everything in context. What if Ryun ran today with all the East Africans? He'd try to be about where Centro is but I'm not sure if he has the tactical skills of Centro that lead to Centro's WC bronze and silver and 4th at 2012 Olympics.
Tactical skills, you mean like out running the Olympic gold medalist in a mile run while in high school: 3:55.3? Yes, using today's techniques, and Centro's coach, Ryun would have been forced to run behind the gold medalist, and he would have planned on finishing 2nd or 4th. Okay, brother.
What about Khalid, who still has the US marathon record? I know he's not US-born, but if you're counting Lagat.... Just haven't seen his name mentioned yet.
Has no one mentioned Salazar? Spectacular (yet brief) career.
NotAustin18 wrote:
Rudiger wrote:I'm surprised you're the only one to bring this up. By the mid 90s, all hopes of an American setting a WR on the track in a distance event was long gone. And ten years later the same thing happened with the marathon.
Ryun was great but beating a bunch of white guys is relatively easy (see this year's Pre 5k).
Yep, you got put everything in context. What if Ryun ran today with all the East Africans? He'd try to be about where Centro is but I'm not sure if he has the tactical skills of Centro that lead to Centro's WC bronze and silver and 4th at 2012 Olympics.
You really need to brush up on your history.
His silver puts him in the men's top ten of middle distance up, with Ryun, Shorter, Rodgers, Pre, Jurek, Meb, Lindgren, Salazar. Let me anticipate opposition to Jurek. He won seven WS in a row. Liquori also possible. Rupp is probably not in my top 5 because he usually runs races that are time trials, per the NOP marketing strategy. I know that Pre didn't beat Europeans, but he was tough, didn't sit and could have learned to beat them. Shorter is my #1 for starting everything, winning a lot and being a tough mofo. He wouldn't have let a coach make him do PRWs. He reminds me of Sampras, self-contained and gifted. Ryun was his own boss, too, as was Rodgers. There's a pattern here.