The Smiths/Morrissey are, by far, the most overrated band in history.

They had one really, really annoying song I can remember called "Cemetary Gates" -- pure rubbish.

I agree with the OP. Jim Morrissey is the worst. The only song of theirs that is even kinda ok is the "Break On Through" one.

Roarkie wrote:

I haven't read this thread other than the first post, but the OG poster here obviously fundamentally misunderstands the word "overrated." They were my favorite band in the 80s and they were NEVER played on the radio. They were NEVER played on MTV. They were NEVER cool, unless you were a hardcore indie music fan. Bands that are completely ignored during their tenure cannot, by definition, be overrated.

there are clearly different definitions of over rated. While the Smiths were never heavily played, they are often cited as one of the most important bands ever. You know, critics.

this kind of adulation is what we are arguing about:

here, from Wikipedia:

The Smiths were an English rock band formed in Manchester in 1982. The band consisted of vocalist Morrissey, guitarist Johnny Marr, bassist Andy Rourke and drummer Mike Joyce. Critics have called them the most important alternative rock band to emerge from the British independent music scene of the 1980s.[1] Q magazine's Simon Goddard argued in 2007 that The Smiths were "the one truly vital voice of the '80s", "the most influential British guitar group of the decade" and the "first indie outsiders to achieve mainstream success on their own terms".[2] The NME named the Smiths the "most influential artist ever" in a 2002 poll, even topping the Beatles.[3]

ok

I listened to the Smiths links posted.

I do like 'Ask' the best.

But that song is a good example of the weakness of the band. It ended 60 seconds ago...and I can't remember it. Compare that to an original song like, say, Coldplay's Viva la Vida:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOxfNxzBGBU

the first time I heard that song I knew I would never forget it. 'Ask'..all I remember is a vague bouncy beat.

More to the point, here are songs much much better than the smiths, but are in the same general category:

"London" -

The Jam - in the city

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ipGhzrIi3s

______________

I want the one I can't have

Cure - In between days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Mx7K1pQess

________________________

Please please please...

james - born of frustration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crZxRIYchjQ

________________________

This charming man

The Jam - Beat surrender

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHP0UxBuuGQ

_________________

Do you see the difference? arguably similar songs, but my choice is so much more...memorable. The smiths songs are weirdly riffless. As if they never got the message of Chuck Berry.

I think the smiths were simply very weak songwriters. lyrically and musicians, ok fine - but if you can't write memorable songs, you just aren't going to be great in my book.

for the record, the groups closest to my heart:

Rolling Stones

Springsteen

John Hiatt

Lyle Lovett

oh no you didn't. Coldplay over The Smiths? On the grounds that they're more original??! dear lord

Newfangled wrote:

oh no you didn't. Coldplay over The Smiths? On the grounds that they're more original??! dear lord

heh - I actually did that to get peoples' attention. I could have chosen other songs but coldplay always gets sophisticates all riled up.

But seriously, viva la vida is a titanic song - they'll be playing that one for 1,000 years. No matter who wrote it.

Poi Dog Pondering was the most overrated band.

Ok, we get it, you don't like The Smiths. No problem there. I remember Viva La Vida. Catchy, listenable, I probably listened to that CD 100 times when it came out and haven't touched it since. I actually like Coldplay, but they're cheap (if that makes sense). They're overproduced and sappy and with lyrics like:

"You, ooh, ooh

Oh you, use your heart as a weapon

And it hurts like heaven"

it just emphasizes the fact that they're a band that deserves a place in a music collection, but that you only put on as background music at dinner parties.

The Jam - no complaint there. The Jam would be in my top 15, at least.

Ahh, The Cure's "In Between Days," not to be confused with "Just Like Heaven." I like The Cure a lot. They're a great band, but they're similar to Coldplay in the sense that they write songs like "Friday I'm in Love" and "Love Song." I think people just like saying "The Cure" - it sounds deep and mysterious. Again, I really like the Cure.

It's funny that you mention James. Tim Booth was often compared to Morrissey and they even covered a few Smiths songs. Born of Frustration is a great song, but it's not Please, please, please...

I'm out - at least we can agree that Foo Fighters is possibly one of the worst bands that ever existed and that the Rolling Stones is one of the best. The Rolling Stones would be in my top 5 just below The Smiths, Roxy Music, Velvet Underground, and the New York Dolls.

The Smiths are definitely overrated, but most in all of history?

I've got Elvis and the Beach Boys way up high on that list.

ok - arrivederci

agreed on roxy music - I am always finding new things in their music and new songs. great band to listen to at different stages of your life.

Virginia Plain in particular is on my all time top 10 song list, obscure division.

I agree with most of your points about the Smiths.

I agree with you 1000% about Nirvana vs Foo Fighters (or Cobain vs Grohl).

I love(d.... kinda burned out on them at this point, like most classic rock) The Stones.

I agree on "In Between Days".

But you did shoot yourself in the foot with your ColdPlay reference. Played in 1000 years??? They've stopped playing them (much of their songs) already!

Yes, "catchy" matters....to a point. I bet you can hum several Brittany Spears songs. Those songs WERE "catchy." So is ebola virus....

Coldplay isn't a very good band. Really. Sometimes you need to reconsider your position.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

I agree with most of your points about the Smiths.

I agree with you 1000% about Nirvana vs Foo Fighters (or Cobain vs Grohl).

I love(d.... kinda burned out on them at this point, like most classic rock) The Stones.

I agree on "In Between Days".

But you did shoot yourself in the foot with your ColdPlay reference. Played in 1000 years??? They've stopped playing them (much of their songs) already!

Yes, "catchy" matters....to a point. I bet you can hum several Brittany Spears songs. Those songs WERE "catchy." So is ebola virus....

Coldplay isn't a very good band. Really. Sometimes you need to reconsider your position.

This is why I used coldplay as an example - it always gets people riled.

Why does coldplay upset so many serious music people? I read an essay about the phenomenon - its thesis was right, I think - the band is actively trying to please its fans. They play pleasant music, fun to listen to and once in a while, just a few times, they do something sublime.

I'll defend viva la vida strongly - it is a great, great pop song. Original, triumphant and sublime.

Fix You is another great moment from Coldplay. one of our brethren used it to great effect here:

I love a smart edgy band..but I really love a good pop song too. There's no harm.

How can anyone interested in music, literature, and / or poetry not love the play in those lyrics?! It's good fun and a terrific song!

NO NO NO AND NO wrote:

They had one really, really annoying song I can remember called "Cemetary Gates" -- pure rubbish.

Listen to the opening guitar of "What Difference Does it Make" and come back to me.

agip wrote:

Compare that to a warmed-over pseudo 60s retro piece like, say, Coldplay's Viva la Vida:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOxfNxzBGBU

the first time I heard that song I knew I would never forget it. 'Ask'..all I remember is a vague bouncy beat.

Er... wrote:

Listen to the opening guitar of "What Difference Does it Make" and come back to me.

agip wrote:

Compare that to a warmed-over pseudo 60s retro piece like, say, Coldplay's Viva la Vida:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOxfNxzBGBU

the first time I heard that song I knew I would never forget it. 'Ask'..all I remember is a vague bouncy beat.

just did. the clash alone had oh, 50 better guitar riffs.The Jam maybe 20.

selling the Smiths as a guitar band is a serious stretch - it's a vocal band with a rhythmic background. With some exceptions.

jaysus, you want guitar opens -

THAT is a guitar opening.

or this one, in a more smithy style:

or maybe this one:

please stop with the descriptions of the smiths as a guitar band - I won't have it. I won't.

I'm sure you like the clash too, but come on - the wanker guitar jingling in the smiths is barely worth discussing

re; viva la vida - start at 8:18. How do you not love this song?

I would bet $10 that Keith Richards likes Viva la Vida.

or start at 8:45 if you truly can't stand rihanna

Sorry, I just can't let stuff like this go. The Clash is absolutely awesome, but there's no way that "Lost in the Supermarket" or "Clampdown" has a better guitar riff than "What Difference Does it Make" or "Bigmouth Strikes Again" or any number of Smiths songs. Look, I don't own one Guns N Roses album, but I will admit that they're very talented and write great songs and deserve to be in the top 100 bands all-time. I get that people don't like The Smiths, but to say they're not a great band is just baffling.

Johnny Marr is one of the greatest guitarists of all time. Without Johnny Marr nobody would remember the Smiths today. Same as Tool without drummer Danny Carry. There are truly great musicians which make the difference between a band being remembered as an all time great band or one that nobody remembers. We won't be having this discussion about Coldplay 30 years from now like we are about the Smiths because nobody will remember them.

To say the Smiths were not a guitar band is preposterous.

From Wikipedia

In 2013, the NME honoured Marr with its Godlike Genius award, hailing Marr as "not content with rewriting the history of music with one of the world's greatest ever bands, The Smiths, he's continued to push boundaries and evolve throughout his career, working with some of the best and most exciting artists on the planet."[1] He was voted the fourth best guitarist of the last 30 years in a poll conducted by the BBC in 2010.

I hear you - musical taste can be so frustrating when there is disagreement.

there are only around 5 bands I actively avoid:

Nickelback

Foos

Smiths

Radiohead

Whitesnake

Foreigner

just about any serious heavy metal

And I'm sure it is frustrating to you that I am grouping the smiths in with bands you think are rubbish. But I'm serious.

have you ever noticed that draize train sounds exactly like led zep's trampled underfoot?

draize train:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVX9vN-3Vsw

zep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ykjFhu48f8

is that something everyone knows? Was draize train a tribute to zep in some way?