Suspect signs of doping

1) Athlete sets a WR

2) Athlete nearly sets a WR

3) Athlete sets a WR and retires

4) Athlete MIGHT set a WR but retires beforehand

5) Athlete has a short career

6) Athlete has a long career

7 Athlete sets a WR and runs a victory lap

8) Athlete grins after the WR, indicating arrogance

9) Athlete does not look happy after setting a WR, indicating guilt

10) Athlete is African

11) Athlete is Chinese

12) Athlete is East European

13) Athlete is Jamaican

14) Athlete recovers too quickly

15) Athlete doesn't get injured

16) Athlete is always "injured"

17) Lance Armstrong never tested positive either

18) Athlete runs with NOP

19) Athlete drops huge PR

20) Athlete wins a race

21) Athlete has the form of a doper

22) Athlete has poor form, yet wins races

23) Athlete has a big twitter following

24) Athlete does not have a big twitter following

25) Athlete has a funny name

26) Athlete ran in the 90's

27) Athlete breaks middle distance records

28) Athlete gets braces as adult

29) Athlete is too buff

30) Athlete knows someone who knows someone

31) Writer of post knows someone who knows someone who knows someone

32) Athlete wins a race and does a workout

33) Athlete's workout schedule is harder than mine

34) Athlete was not junior phenom

35) Athlete was/is a junior phenom

36) Athlete anonymously posts on letsrun

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5625654#ixzz2shFJ5TSo

zat0pek, your posts make some sense and you are an insider to see more than most on here, but this item seems really absurd. Do you really think there was a conspiracy to nail a non-American a year in advance? Ben Johnson was juiced to the gills. No one had muscle definition like him. He was the poster child of what steroid use looks like. I find this anecdote highly dubious. How many other claims did you hear that never materialized, but because this one did, you're convinced there was a conspiracy?

Zat0pek mentions braces, you can safely ignore him. The braces test is highly specific.

rudisha is so dirty in terms of

peoples perception that clean .

oh and fact has got a brother on his side ...

gw501516 is what got him those times ,

saved on the oxygen .

probably on the lightness too .

but will see what can do when returns without it.

wtfunny wrote:

Yet those guys are routinely accused of doping on this site. If doping is linked to world record performances, then form doesn't seem to be an indicator (to me) of doping at all.

Love your descriptions; I could watch any one of those guys run just for the sheer beauty of what they do/did.

Of course they are routinely accused, it comes with the territory. Especially when some of them were running. I mean, MJ and Komen are pretty questionable based upon the era they ran in, but then every performance from the early 90's until the mid 2000's seems questionable because testing was so weak. It doesn't mean they cheated either, but the testers were so far behind the users that the shadow gets cast on everyone.

Anyway, good form doesn't mean you are clear of any wrong doing, not by a long shot. Bad form simply stands out. A famous cycling manager, who doped himself, basically said the same; the donkeys are easy to spot. Both of the Turkish women run like donkeys for instance. At least one of them was thin enough to look believable on the starting line.

Agreed. This is nonsense. if the intent was as suggested, they'd simply have busted a whole bunch of East Europeans, playing on the "Us versus them" mentality, and everyone would've been happy. Johnson got busted because he couldn't have been MORE juiced.

And had Flo Jo continued to compete, I'm confident she'd have been busted as well. But my suspicions over her aren't based on a story I hear in an alleyway behind a bar one night about a female track star who the IAAF said they would try to catch 18 months from the next full moon.

J.R. wrote:

LM wrote:

I don't see how those follow. You are going to have to connect the dots for me on this one.

It's also important to realize that no one is saying you can't run fast without drugs, but for many people they do believe you cannot be the best without drugs at this point, as drugs have already taken us beyond the limits of possible clean performances.

I'm not seeing the move though that takes us from running to a different area of life. What "blocks" the counter-argument to yours that say drugs help in running, but do not assist in other activities of life. In fact, most drugs you can take for performance are arguably bad for health.

That's why they are fallacies.

I can' tell if I am totally lost or you are being facetious.

Since when is it a fallacy for one thing to help another but not something else.

I.e. If you need glasses to read the newspaper this does not necessarily mean you need glasses to go to the bathroom.

If you aren't trolling around, I really wouldn't mind an explanation as to how, if we assume you can't run fast without drugs, that also means you can't pass a test without drugs? To be honest, I don't even see how drugs that help running are supposed to help one pass a test in the first place.

aduck2022 wrote:

rudisha is so dirty in terms of

peoples perception that clean .

oh and fact has got a brother on his side ...

gw501516 is what got him those times ,

saved on the oxygen .

probably on the lightness too .

but will see what can do when returns without it.

Why will he be returning without it?

do u know Jama? you are an idiot!

Easy: follow the money, and control for average-payouts-per-sport. Hence, baseball more likely to be drugged than running. However, we also need to attend to variation in payout per event. Thus, the person who wins the neighborhood 5K less likely to dope than the winners of major urban marathons. If we want drug-free sports, we shouldn't pay people for doing them, which takes us back to the aristocratic defense of amateurism. Me? I dope with caffeine in order to win an age-group medal at my local race! We can't have both professionalism and freedom from drugs.

Sorry my friend; the gap is a tooth extracted so when lock jaw is contracted you can still recieve nutrition and fluids.

Van wrote:

The teeth gap thing is often from a tooth pulled during various Kenyan tribal initiation rights upon reaching the manhood threshold.

I agree, though, that Zatopek's post is quite comprehensive and helpful.

have to ask wrote:

zat0pek, your posts make some sense and you are an insider to see more than most on here, but this item seems really absurd. Do you really think there was a conspiracy to nail a non-American a year in advance? Ben Johnson was juiced to the gills. No one had muscle definition like him. He was the poster child of what steroid use looks like. I find this anecdote highly dubious. How many other claims did you hear that never materialized, but because this one did, you're convinced there was a conspiracy?

No, I don't think it was a conspiracy. It was pretty routine to cover up drug positives in that era. My hypothesis is that the decision was made not to cover one up. "The highest placing non-American in the 100 meters" is a pretty clear choice. Too much sponsor and TV money to have it be an an American and the 100 is a high-profile event. I just happened to turn out that it was the guy who won.

But remember, I was told this a full year before Seoul. If that was a coincidence, that's one helluva coincidence.

[quote]Ootpik wrote:

Sorry my friend; the gap is a tooth extracted so when lock jaw is contracted you can still recieve nutrition and fluids.

[quote]

All well and good except for the fact that Lagat never had that gap.

Zat0pek wrote:

No, I don't think it was a conspiracy. It was pretty routine to cover up drug positives in that era. My hypothesis is that the decision was made not to cover one up. "The highest placing non-American in the 100 meters" is a pretty clear choice. Too much sponsor and TV money to have it be an an American and the 100 is a high-profile event. I just happened to turn out that it was the guy who won.

But remember, I was told this a full year before Seoul. If that was a coincidence, that's one helluva coincidence.

Um, that would be a conspiracy. You're saying they conspired to bust the highest placing non-American. And this is based on the word of a coach at a JuCo who knew a Russian coach who had heard a rampant rumor in Europe that a governing body had issued an edict? Knowing the athletic tension between the US and USSR at that time (they had boycotted each other's games the previous two Olympiads), do you honestly think a Russian coach would tolerate such a situation and not expose the conspiracy to let the Americans go untouched, even if it was a Canadian runner who ended up busted?

Nearly half of all orthodontic patients are adults, so an adult like Lagat wearing braces is not at all unusual. He shows no other overt signs of HGH use such as enlarged jaw or brow, and his musculature is not overpowering. Furthermore, his teeth are comparatively straight, with a single anomalous diastema (gap), hgh would have a more pervasive affect.

Diastema can occur for a variety of reasons, including wisdom tooth extraction which results in shifting. Diastema occurs more often in those of African origin. He may have always had it, i've seen pictures as far back as 2008 and the gap existed. His smile tends to cover it up, so hard to tell if it was always there or not.

Lagat is clean of HGH, the burden of guilt is left as an exercise to the reader.

All NOPers are dopers.

Lagat's gap is easily covered up, don't you think he/his-coach/his-manager would have hidden it in order to cover up HGH use? The fact that they left it in plain sight means they're not worried, and they're not worried because he's innocent.

Zat0pek,

Everything you have written here rings with credibility. Folks would do well to pay attention.

Many thanks for taking the time...

Doping cheats in sports are a very small minority, even in track, which has gotten so stringent in testing and rules that you can't even drink a soda pop anymore without getting it lab tested first.

Most of those who claim that "everyone is cheating" are just trying to rationalize why they should take drugs. It's the philosophy of failure.

Of course the perception is that doping is wide spread, because of high profile busts, but that's not the reality.