She's back - Suzy Favor Hamilton returning to running as head of LA marathon charity team

Brit here wrote:

For some couples, open marriages might be more stable than monogamy. The divorce rate is pretty high for monogamists. Perhaps if there was less dogma about acceptable marital behaviour more couples would stay together.

Do you have any stats on the outcomes of children brought up by parents in a stable, open marriage versus monogamist ones?

Again isolationist thinking. There are always situations where individuals are unconventional for the best. However saying "The divorce rate is high for monogamists" is a silly statement and inconsistent. Silly as almost all marriage is intended to be monogamist and 2 marriage rates of success vary. The ore important the value of the family in society the lesser the divorce rates. Your statement also assumes being monogamist is the cause for divorce. There are many reasons.

In addition a openly sexual society tends to result in women having to bring up children by themselves. You can see it in young African American populations were sadly a large number of fathers don't commit and don't stay monogamous and as a results, far more single parents struggling and leading to far higher problems such is child poverty, child education, higher crime rates, less social mobility etc.

eldanielfire wrote:

Again isolationist thinking. There are always situations where individuals are unconventional for the best. However saying "The divorce rate is high for monogamists" is a silly statement and inconsistent. Silly as almost all marriage is intended to be monogamist and 2 marriage rates of success vary. The ore important the value of the family in society the lesser the divorce rates. Your statement also assumes being monogamist is the cause for divorce. There are many reasons.

In addition a openly sexual society tends to result in women having to bring up children by themselves. You can see it in young African American populations were sadly a large number of fathers don't commit and don't stay monogamous and as a results, far more single parents struggling and leading to far higher problems such is child poverty, child education, higher crime rates, less social mobility etc.

You cannot accuse me of isolationist thinking and then use your example of sexual openness in African American population resulting in child education, higher crime rates & less social mobility. There are far more socioeconomic issues that that to factor in. Furthermore you are confused about the difference between a stable, open marriage and non-committed relationships. It may be possible to love someone and commit to lifelong companionship with them yet still have sex with other people.

You cannot argue against the fact that many marriages entered with the intention of monogamy end in separation or divorce. That is not a silly statement to make because it is the truth. It is broken & unloving families that hurt children's upbringing, not the sex lives of the parents.

Brit here wrote:

It is broken & unloving families that hurt children's upbringing, not the sex lives of the parents.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Indeed

Why do all the beautiful creatures move to Malibu?

Yeah, uh...I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be too happy to know my mom was banging some other dude(s) while raising me. Fact is, infidelity is considered broken, for good reason, and that ain't about to change. No one has given me a good reason to think monogamy is not the pinnacle of human relationships.

asdpfoiiuwe wrote:

Yeah, uh...I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be too happy to know my mom was banging some other dude(s) while raising me. Fact is, infidelity is considered broken, for good reason, and that ain't about to change. No one has given me a good reason to think monogamy is not the pinnacle of human relationships.

Exactly how familiar were you with your parents' sex lives when you were growing up? Can you really say with 100% certainty that they never had sex with anyone other than each other?

Really enjoyed her book, this one: http://amzn.to/1a1rmOs , thought it was useful to say the least.

John A wrote:

I hope this story has a happy ending.

Best post

I don't know if some people are just trolling on this thread, but this has to be one of the more disturbing threads I've read on letsrun. Prostitution is no laughing matter and should never be defended. Human trafficking is a serious problem in the U.S., not just overseas. Girls who venture into this kind of lifestyle, whether voluntarily or by coercion, end up trapped by shame and violence into a system that abuses and exploits them in the worst possible ways. Girls who turn to porn or prostitution are sometimes just seeking escape from their childhood and a way to independently sustain themselves, but once they go down that road it is very difficult for them to be rescued out of the system and reestablished with a new life apart from all of that. Do some reading on the problem of human trafficking.

--- wrote:

I don't know if some people are just trolling on this thread, but this has to be one of the more disturbing threads I've read on letsrun. Prostitution is no laughing matter and should never be defended. Human trafficking is a serious problem in the U.S., not just overseas. Girls who venture into this kind of lifestyle, whether voluntarily or by coercion, end up trapped by shame and violence into a system that abuses and exploits them in the worst possible ways. Girls who turn to porn or prostitution are sometimes just seeking escape from their childhood and a way to independently sustain themselves, but once they go down that road it is very difficult for them to be rescued out of the system and reestablished with a new life apart from all of that. Do some reading on the problem of human trafficking.

Do you want to eliminate human trafficking, or prostitution?

There are numerous freelancers - men and women, straight and gay - who are prostitutes and enjoy anonymity. A newspaper in Toronto (prostitution is legal in Canada) ran a story of 2 girls who paid for university through prostitution. They had no regrets, and made a lot of money.

The industry will always be there. You will never eliminate it. So you can either shame those in it - you seem to think only the women deserve shame - or you can enact laws to protect sex workers, and make sure they are safe. This is what Singapore does. All prostitutes must be tested every 4 weeks, and it is entirely legal. The result is that there are a lot of prostitutes in Singapore because there is a lot of demand. And always has been. Just as there is in Omaha, Fargo, Rapid City, and other places where sex workers are arrested and shamed.

If I arrive in a jurisdiction where prostitution is legal, and I call up the services of a licensed, legal prostitute, who have I harmed? If I pay SFH (or perhaps Galen Rupp) $500/hr for an evening in my hotel room, s/he is better off, I am better off. I have that most valuable of assurances - silence - thus guaranteeing my partner will not find out, sparing that person an immense amount of pain.

There is a way for this transaction to occur so everyone benefits. SFH found just such a way. She might have been guilty of tax evasion, depending on where/how she realized the income. But this is not a moral question. The morals are hers and hers alone.

The men who pay for prostitutes and the men who control the women in the system are the exploiters and should be held criminally liable. It is anything but an innocent, victimless system like you imply.

--- wrote:

The men who pay for prostitutes and the men who control the women in the system are the exploiters and should be held criminally liable. It is anything but an innocent, victimless system like you imply.

I love how you assume prostitute == woman.

Why is the idea of a woman controlling her own sexuality so threatening to you? She knows men will pay her for sex, and uses that to make some money. If she is in control and chooses who to bang, and keeps all the proceeds....who is harmed?

I am saving myself for Suzy.

I will say that human trafficking is awful.

That is, basically using troubled women, runaways and immigrants as sex slaves.

The independant prostitute that is completely doing this of their own volition is different.

Still often bad though. They may be desperate for money or have addiction issues.

There are some that are happy doing it. And some people think they have a right to do this if they are happy with it.

Each instance should be judged on it's own.

* wrote:

They may be desperate for money or have addiction issues.

This is an issue of addiction, not prostitution.

Exploitative prostitution is a *symptom* of other problems. Prostitution in an of itself - two consenting adults agreeing on services for a fee - is perfectly legitimate.

The romanticized view of prostitution in this thread is truly disturbing. Many of the same arguments being used pro-prostitution on this thread could be used pro-slavery. The slave benefits from the system and is taken care of. The slave industry has always existed and is not going to go away. If a person wants to sell themselves into slavery then they can do so at their own choice.

--- wrote:

The romanticized view of prostitution in this thread is truly disturbing. Many of the same arguments being used pro-prostitution on this thread could be used pro-slavery. The slave benefits from the system and is taken care of. The slave industry has always existed and is not going to go away. If a person wants to sell themselves into slavery then they can do so at their own choice.

Human trafficking and the exploitation of humans in the sex trade are awful crimes, but you cannot compare all prostitution to slavery.

If a woman wants to pay me $100 to have sex with her and I choose to do it then I haven't sold myself into slavery. In fact I'd probably quite enjoy it.

/quote]

Do you want to eliminate human trafficking, or prostitution?

There are numerous freelancers - men and women, straight and gay - who are prostitutes and enjoy anonymity. A newspaper in Toronto (prostitution is legal in Canada) ran a story of 2 girls who paid for university through prostitution. They had no regrets, and made a lot of money.

The industry will always be there. You will never eliminate it. So you can either shame those in it - you seem to think only the women deserve shame - or you can enact laws to protect sex workers, and make sure they are safe. This is what Singapore does. All prostitutes must be tested every 4 weeks, and it is entirely legal. The result is that there are a lot of prostitutes in Singapore because there is a lot of demand. And always has been. Just as there is in Omaha, Fargo, Rapid City, and other places where sex workers are arrested and shamed.[/quote]

This argument that "prostitution has always been there and always will be" is a very stupid illogical argument. Murder always has always been there and always will, so I guess we should also embrace it also.