TLW wrote:
Can you train in Boston and be elite? Yes.
Are there many, many other places that would be a MUCH better choice? Absolutely.
+1
If running fast was my top priority in life, and I was moving, it probably wouldn't be to Boston. That said, Boston should be workable, especially with a Jan/Feb training camp somewhere else.
Huddle and Smith seem to manage in Providence.
HRE wrote:
Rodgers, Salazar, etc. probably ran so "slowly" 30 years ago for the same reasos that the Kenyans and Ethiopians of thirty years ago ran even more slowly. Or do you think that there was a lot of ice and snow during the winters in Kenya and Ethiopia thirty years ago?
Shovey wrote:
you do realize that your post makes no sense as you appear completely ignorant of basic history? are you referring to the kenyans from the country of kenya that was formed in 1963 and the ethiopians from the country of ethiopia that didn't field an olympic team until 1956? you seem to think that kenya and ethiopia had elite training facilities all through the 20th century and that their runners just weren't good. go back to the history books and do us all a favor and learn a little bit about what was going on in that part of africa in the 20th century.
HRE referred to 30 years ago, which does not include 1956, 1963, or most of the 20th century.
You should go back to the history books yourself. Start with one on Kip Keino.
Reading is FUNdamental wrote:
HRE wrote:Rodgers, Salazar, etc. probably ran so "slowly" 30 years ago for the same reasos that the Kenyans and Ethiopians of thirty years ago ran even more slowly. Or do you think that there was a lot of ice and snow during the winters in Kenya and Ethiopia thirty years ago?
Shovey wrote:
you do realize that your post makes no sense as you appear completely ignorant of basic history? are you referring to the kenyans from the country of kenya that was formed in 1963 and the ethiopians from the country of ethiopia that didn't field an olympic team until 1956? you seem to think that kenya and ethiopia had elite training facilities all through the 20th century and that their runners just weren't good. go back to the history books and do us all a favor and learn a little bit about what was going on in that part of africa in the 20th century.
HRE referred to 30 years ago, which does not include 1956, 1963, or most of the 20th century.
You should go back to the history books yourself. Start with one on Kip Keino.
are you that thick in the head that you do not understand that a country with an overabundance of natural talent doesn't develop it overnight? perhaps you don't and that's ok but you then might want to hit the history books and teach yourself how many decades countries like the US and the UK had developed running programs at the national, collegiate and scholastic levels by the time the 80s rolled around. compare that to what was in place in east africa during the same time period. you actually might learn something and no longer make ignorant posts.
Joseph McVeigh wrote:
LRC Anonymous Posters: US post-grad runners need more money and coaching support!
BAA: Here's money and coaching support.
LRC Anonymous Posters: What, no hacienda in Flagstaff? No speed-training center in San Diego? Thanks for nothing.
+1
Huddle and Smith seem to manage in Providence.
Thank you +1
People seem to forget that there are people who train on the east coast and do perfectly fine.
Shovey wrote:
Why would anyone want to come to the boston area to train? There are so many better places to be a distance runner.
you mean like when you have to do a 10-mile tempo run and 2 feet of snow were just dumped overnight and it's 10 degrees out? your tempo gets canceled but your competitors training in arizona or san diego get to do their workouts as planned.
My 13 and 14 year old sons train in the Boston area and despite a "bad winter" they missed zero days the entire winter. They didn't miss a single long run. They ran outside every day except 4 days in which wind chill factor was below zero and they ran on the treadmill on those 4 days. They missed zero tempo runs and did 2 or 3 tempos a week during the winter. We found a stretch of road on Rt 1 where they push the snow off of the breakdown lane. They did the tempos in the breakdown lane and we used car odometer to measure the distance. About 5 or 6 tempos were moved forward or back a day when snow storms happened on the scheduled day. All it took was a little flexibility. They also did repeat 40s and repeat 200s. Never once did they use a track. You don't need a track, you just need the right attitude. We found a cul-de-sac with no traffic and no trees so good sun exposure for melting of snow and ice and wheeled off the 40 and 200 distances and they did the work there. Again, some of these were moved back or forward a day due to snow storms. When it was a bad winter wind, we simply ran them with the wind. Same with the tempos. You can train anywhere and you don't need a track, you just need to innovate a little and improvise a little and be a little flexible. People who think you have to move to some "ideal" location don't understand the essence of the sport. The mind/mental approach is much more important than the location
sure. if you want to compare what grade schoolers need to compete with other grade schoolers to what world class runners need to compete with other world class runners in ideal training places, then, sure boston is fantastic. when you get back to reality, let us know.
The Soviets didn't field an Olympic team until 1952 yet managed to haul off a boatload of medals by 1956. Kenya got a bronze in the 800 from Wilson Kiprugat (that may not be spelled perfectly) in 1964 and then came Keino and his successive golds in 1968 and 1972 on top of the golds from Biwott and Temu in '68. And regardless of when Ethiopia got round to fielding their first Olympic team, they managed to produce Bikila and Wolde, four successive medals in the Olympic marathon, three of them gold. A fair amount of talent does seem to have developed itself "overnight."
In the 70s, there were letters to Track and Field News complaining about Kenyan runners at US colleges and there were plenty of Kenyans on the US road circuit by 1980. And US runners, some of whom trained in Boston, managed to beat them with some regularity. You might want to check out a bit of history yourself.
Location is very important in training, especially for road racers. For 1500/5k guys, it doesn't matter quite as much, tracks are the same. But one man's Boulder is another man's hell on earth. One man's Roanoke or Asheville is the boonies to some and paradise to others. Boston winter is a necessary evil for some and a training destroyer for others. I assume they'll go to florida or something in the winter though like zap.
This is great news. Congrats to BAA and Adidas. Nike on the west coast, Adidas on the east.
Next logical org to step up would be Asics & NYRR. It would be a natural as Asois is the sponsor of the NYCM. (I realize NYRR has been doing great things nationally -- and for a long time -- for the LDR community).
And before we go bonkers about training in Manhattan, they can be headquartered a few miles north is some great Westchester areas, with an abundance of trails and hills. Not too mention the expansive Rockefeller State Park, training home of Khalid Khannouchi.
In a few years we would have great dual meets; Asics-NYRR vs Adidas-BAA!
The fact that you think the athletes in this new group would be fighting for their lives at Reggie with the rest of us on Tuesday and Wednesday nights shows that you might not be the best person to define stupid.
krispy kremlin wrote:
People are confusing 'training tough' and 'training stupid.'
The cold in Boston/NE can make you tough; makes you double-down on your commitment to get your second run or workout in.
'Training stupid' involves:
1. Running through slushy/ankle-deep 'ice ponds' that can build up, among other place, along the carriage road on Commonwealth just into Newton.
2. The poorly shoveled/plowed sidewalks throughout Al/Brighton/Boston.
3. The well shoveled/plowed sidewalks that are covered in black-ice.
4. Not getting on an outdoor track for threes weeks due to snow and fighting for your life/lane on an over-crowded indoor track Tue/Wed nights.
I guess these can get you 'tough' but there's also a significant chance that they can get you injured. The argument I'd make regarding some of these Boston legends is: how much better could they have been had they gone south in the winters?
Shovey wrote:
Reading is FUNdamental wrote:HRE referred to 30 years ago, which does not include 1956, 1963, or most of the 20th century.
You should go back to the history books yourself. Start with one on Kip Keino.
are you that thick in the head that you do not understand that a country with an overabundance of natural talent doesn't develop it overnight? perhaps you don't and that's ok but you then might want to hit the history books and teach yourself how many decades countries like the US and the UK had developed running programs at the national, collegiate and scholastic levels by the time the 80s rolled around. compare that to what was in place in east africa during the same time period. you actually might learn something and no longer make ignorant posts.
That's right. Show him who's boss. Feel better now, tool?
boston runner guy wrote:
The fact that you think the athletes in this new group would be fighting for their lives at Reggie with the rest of us on Tuesday and Wednesday nights shows that you might not be the best person to define stupid.
Hahaha, my thoughts exactly
People literally are highlighting like the 15-20 days a year that can be miserable and dangerous for training. However these hypothetical new elites in Boston would
A) have their pick of indoor tracks
B) have access to cars and thus more diverse terrain than just the charles river
C) be able to train during the day and avoid some of the most dangerous conditions like hidden black ice at night
The only thing missing from Boston is A) living at altitude, which Portland doesn't offer either and B) Long-up hill runs that you can find in places close to the mountains like flagstaff, boulder and Kenya.
I'm excited about this. With New Balance just starting construction on their mega old-woman-in-a-shoe headquarters adjacent to the pike, I'm thinking (well, more like hoping) Boston's going to get back to being the hotbed of running greatness that it once was. Yes, I know I'm delusional.
definitely agree. Are there other places that would be better to train? yes. But like others have said before, Hansons has made it work and, not that I can speak from experience, Boston seems to be > East Michigan if we're specifically talking weather.
I think that the biggest benefit is that it can bring more people to the area ---> stronger training group ----> faster times. It could also encourage other areas to do the same. I don't see a negative aspect to starting an elite training group in a major metro area. Although weather/location is important, it is not the most important aspect to training.
Can Be Done wrote:
My 13 and 14 year old sons train in the Boston area and despite a "bad winter" they missed zero days the entire winter. They didn't miss a single long run. They ran outside every day except 4 days in which wind chill factor was below zero and they ran on the treadmill on those 4 days. They missed zero tempo runs and did 2 or 3 tempos a week during the winter. We found a stretch of road on Rt 1 where they push the snow off of the breakdown lane. They did the tempos in the breakdown lane and we used car odometer to measure the distance. About 5 or 6 tempos were moved forward or back a day when snow storms happened on the scheduled day. All it took was a little flexibility. They also did repeat 40s and repeat 200s. Never once did they use a track. You don't need a track, you just need the right attitude. We found a cul-de-sac with no traffic and no trees so good sun exposure for melting of snow and ice and wheeled off the 40 and 200 distances and they did the work there. Again, some of these were moved back or forward a day due to snow storms. When it was a bad winter wind, we simply ran them with the wind. Same with the tempos. You can train anywhere and you don't need a track, you just need to innovate a little and improvise a little and be a little flexible. People who think you have to move to some "ideal" location don't understand the essence of the sport. The mind/mental approach is much more important than the location
Wow, you had your 13 and 14 year old kids doing that? Hope it works out for you?
Where does Ben True train?
I am extremely pleased to see BAA stepping up to help do what it takes to make New England once again the center of the running world.
Boston is a great place to live and a great place to train. We just need a few more good people and good organizations to step up, put a bit more focus on the pursuit of athletic excellence and we will undoubtedly soon see runners from our community competing at the highest level. I can't wait to root for these new runners.
Would be cool to see a BAA vs. NY/NJ TC dual meet! Depends on the athletes the BAA gets. Mahon coaches everything from the 1500m to the marathon, so will be interesting to see what kind of group they put together. As of right now, it seems like his professional athletes are all females.
Mahon wouldn't have come here if adidas and the BAA weren't putting up some serious cash, so there is no doubt in my mind that they will have everything they need - including getting out of town when necessary.
What will these standards be to make the "high-performance" team? Will this group be similar to the mammoth group - all encompassing with mid-distance & long distance track runners, and mid & long distance road racers? This is going to be a great thing for Boston.