Bmo wrote:
In conclusion i guess the march madness tournament should just allow the top two ranked bball teams into the national championship game every year without any kind of tournament. Lol thatll really work out.
That's not the same at all. People are saying that the top ranked person should be allowed an auto entry to compete at the national meet. But the BCS does what you're making fun of and it doesn't have a problem at all.
ytcytc wrote:
Bmo wrote:In conclusion i guess the march madness tournament should just allow the top two ranked bball teams into the national championship game every year without any kind of tournament. Lol thatll really work out.
That's not the same at all. People are saying that the top ranked person should be allowed an auto entry to compete at the national meet. But the BCS does what you're making fun of and it doesn't have a problem at all.
Last time i checked the bcs was going to more of a tournament format because the current format doesnt allow the best to compete against each other. If there was nothing wrong with it the. Why are there talks in changing it?
from flotrack, makes the case well...
Why is the 10k Run at Regionals, Hasay and Others Succumb to the Heat
Mitch Kastoff on May 24, 2013, 4:48pm | More Posts
Welcome to Austin, TX. It’s the home of the NCAA DI West Regional, but it’s more commonly known for other quirks that keep the city weird. It’s impossible not to find somewhere with live music, people stand in line for three hours just to get barbecue, and if you brought any clothing with you that isn’t a t-shirt or shorts, you overpacked.
Even as the sun went down last night’s for the men’s and women’s 10,000m, there was a false sense that the last two races of the night would be unbearable. But the heat down here is unrelenting and unforgiving; just ask everyone who tried to run twenty-five laps.
To start things off, the women’s race was delayed twenty minutes because it was decided that in addition to chips, everyone was going to wear hip numbers just in case things got congested.
I sat with one unnamed coach while we watched forty-eight girls take countless nervous strides as they, and us, waited for them to just end the anticipation.
We weren’t prepared for the night, either. Both the coach and I had worn jeans and a t-shirt. I should have know better considering that the Flotrack polo shirts are jet black and that there are only two seasons down here - summer and Texas summer.
So as we watched Oregon’s Jordan Hasay go from smiling during the opening laps to the worst we’ve ever seen her on the track, one has to wonder of why this race was even being run.
A shot of better times for Hasay.
It wasn’t always this way. Three years ago, the NCAA changed the qualifying system for the outdoor championships and like all changes, there have been outspoken critics.
The qualifying system used to be a combination of the regional meet and at-large bids. Rather than two, regionals was divided into four meets (east, mideast, midwest, and west).
The top five finishers in each region would advance to nationals. The next spots were given to the at-large bids, which was based on a national descending order list. The next seven finishers in each region were grouped together and from there, the next fastest got a trip to the big dance.
The number of at-large bids were determined by the minimum number of student-athletes per event and the maximum amount of student-athletes permitted at the meet. For example, the 2008 NCAA Nationals Championships required twenty men in the 100m and 544 male student-athletes for the whole meet.
Except in the 10k. The 10k was selected via a combination of an automatic time (that year, it was 28:45) and the descending order list. This old system had some pros and cons.
Note: The system is more complex than this, so if you have any other information, shoot me an email.
Pro: Running Multiple 10,000m Races Sucks
Imagine you’re an elite collegiate distance runner. You have to race the 10k at some fast meet to run a good qualifier, then run at conferences to score points, then regionals, NCAA Nationals, and maybe the U.S. Championships. That’s a lot of laps.
This system circumvented the need for that extra 10k at regionals. If you had run fast, then you were guaranteed a spot and could rest up for the race that actually mattered.
Con: Those That Didn’t Get Into a Fast Race, Lost Out
In the laissez-faire world of track and field, not everyone has the same opportunities or resources. If you couldn’t get into a fast race, then your only hope is that you pop a big one at regionals and make it to the next round.
That opportunity favors athletes like Iowa State’s Dani Stack, who entered the meet seeded 35th and grabbed the twelfth and final 10k spot last night. She’s been hurt for quite some time and her only mark was from a tactical 10k at the Big 12 Championship.
Shouldn’t she be given a fair shot?
Last Night Wasn’t a Race or a War of Attrition, but a Pyrrhic Victory
There’s a common, nerve-wracking theme for the twenty-five lap race. At some point, everyone but one runner breaks. It’s only a matter of time (and pace).
Last night was tough to watch. Though the opening laps were pedestrian, no one was excited for what was to come over the last two miles.
There were guys falling off the bandwagon left and right. Some dropped out, some just sat on the outside lanes, and some, like Iowa State’s Mohamed Hrezi, tried to finish despite looking like all he wanted to do was veer off the track and jump into the steeple pit.
The worst was Portland’s David Perry. The sophomore had run 3:45.74 and 29:20.34 this year, so when the pace started to slow, the Pilots thought that it was playing right into the speedy 10k’er’s hands. Instead, Perry came down with what looked like heat exhaustion and while he was in ninth with 150m to go, he wobbled into lane three, and staggered to line to finish 14th.
Then there’s the biggest surprise of night, Hasay. The second best NCAA 10,000m runner won’t run the event in front of her home crowd in Eugene. The second half of her race in Austin was the exact opposite of what we saw at Payton Jordan, where she started to pick up the pace in an effort to hit the IAAF “A” standard.
Yesterday, we just wanted it to end. Lap by lap, Hasay was passed by another competitor and eventually finished in 35:51.20, which was good for 18th.
While everyone is stunned at the result, the implications go a bit deeper. She still has a shot to run the 5K at nationals, but what about Oregon’s attempt to win another NCAA team title? Those valuable projected points in the 10k have been wiped off the board.
Why is the 10k run at NCAA regionals? The national field for the decathlon is determined by a descending list of twenty-four athletes. Why not do the same for the 10k? It’s not just about running on tired legs, but the drain the weather puts on the athletes’ bodies doesn’t help anyone from the west region. Or, as the Greeks called it, a Pyrrhic Victory.
Of course, this story isn’t without a bit of irony. Between praying to the Track God(s) for a cool front to miraculously blow in last night and looking at the rainy pictures from the men’s 10k at the East Regional, Austin finally got some cool weather.
It just so happened to be in the form of a torrential downpour that was eighteen hours too late.
Isn’t it ironic, don’t you think?
Edit: The two occasions in recent memory that it's ever rained really hard down here was the Texas State Meet and last night. Thanks a lot, weather.
rojo wrote:
[quote]Ncaa is nuts wrote:
You use a govt analogy. IN reality, people who don't want regionals are like people on welfare, you think you deserve something for no work.
I'll use a frat boy analogy: you think you deserve to be a trust funder because someone in your family stole from hard working Americans.
Why don't we just impose a 100% tax on inheritence? Conservatives should agree because they say that the American way is to do the work yourself, not have anything given to you. The ivies should eliminate legacy admissions for the same reason. Rich people shouldn't have servents, there should be no employees, everybody should have to fend for themselves.
As far as regionals or prelims, oregon whiners should just shut it and toughen up. No wonder pre always lost in Europe, and always won in eugene.
Just curious, have the brojos ever had real jobs, or have they spent entire lives leaching of mommy, daddy and whatnot? Usually, the biggest complainers about lazy people are the most guilty and the least likely to have ever done any manual labor or menial work.
A Duck wrote:
from flotrack, makes the case well...
Why is the 10k Run at Regionals, Hasay and Others Succumb to the Heat
Mitch Kastoff on May 24, 2013, 4:48pm | More Posts
Welcome to Austin, TX. It’s the home of the NCAA DI West Regional, but it’s more commonly known for other quirks that keep the city weird. It’s impossible not to find somewhere with live music, people stand in line for three hours just to get barbecue, and if you brought any clothing with you that isn’t a t-shirt or shorts, you overpacked.
Even as the sun went down last night’s for the men’s and women’s 10,000m, there was a false sense that the last two races of the night would be unbearable. But the heat down here is unrelenting and unforgiving; just ask everyone who tried to run twenty-five laps.
To start things off, the women’s race was delayed twenty minutes because it was decided that in addition to chips, everyone was going to wear hip numbers just in case things got congested.
I sat with one unnamed coach while we watched forty-eight girls take countless nervous strides as they, and us, waited for them to just end the anticipation.
We weren’t prepared for the night, either. Both the coach and I had worn jeans and a t-shirt. I should have know better considering that the Flotrack polo shirts are jet black and that there are only two seasons down here - summer and Texas summer.
So as we watched Oregon’s Jordan Hasay go from smiling during the opening laps to the worst we’ve ever seen her on the track, one has to wonder of why this race was even being run.
A shot of better times for Hasay.
It wasn’t always this way. Three years ago, the NCAA changed the qualifying system for the outdoor championships and like all changes, there have been outspoken critics.
The qualifying system used to be a combination of the regional meet and at-large bids. Rather than two, regionals was divided into four meets (east, mideast, midwest, and west).
The top five finishers in each region would advance to nationals. The next spots were given to the at-large bids, which was based on a national descending order list. The next seven finishers in each region were grouped together and from there, the next fastest got a trip to the big dance.
The number of at-large bids were determined by the minimum number of student-athletes per event and the maximum amount of student-athletes permitted at the meet. For example, the 2008 NCAA Nationals Championships required twenty men in the 100m and 544 male student-athletes for the whole meet.
Except in the 10k. The 10k was selected via a combination of an automatic time (that year, it was 28:45) and the descending order list. This old system had some pros and cons.
Note: The system is more complex than this, so if you have any other information, shoot me an email.
Pro: Running Multiple 10,000m Races Sucks
Imagine you’re an elite collegiate distance runner. You have to race the 10k at some fast meet to run a good qualifier, then run at conferences to score points, then regionals, NCAA Nationals, and maybe the U.S. Championships. That’s a lot of laps.
This system circumvented the need for that extra 10k at regionals. If you had run fast, then you were guaranteed a spot and could rest up for the race that actually mattered.
Con: Those That Didn’t Get Into a Fast Race, Lost Out
In the laissez-faire world of track and field, not everyone has the same opportunities or resources. If you couldn’t get into a fast race, then your only hope is that you pop a big one at regionals and make it to the next round.
That opportunity favors athletes like Iowa State’s Dani Stack, who entered the meet seeded 35th and grabbed the twelfth and final 10k spot last night. She’s been hurt for quite some time and her only mark was from a tactical 10k at the Big 12 Championship.
Shouldn’t she be given a fair shot?
Last Night Wasn’t a Race or a War of Attrition, but a Pyrrhic Victory
There’s a common, nerve-wracking theme for the twenty-five lap race. At some point, everyone but one runner breaks. It’s only a matter of time (and pace).
Last night was tough to watch. Though the opening laps were pedestrian, no one was excited for what was to come over the last two miles.
There were guys falling off the bandwagon left and right. Some dropped out, some just sat on the outside lanes, and some, like Iowa State’s Mohamed Hrezi, tried to finish despite looking like all he wanted to do was veer off the track and jump into the steeple pit.
The worst was Portland’s David Perry. The sophomore had run 3:45.74 and 29:20.34 this year, so when the pace started to slow, the Pilots thought that it was playing right into the speedy 10k’er’s hands. Instead, Perry came down with what looked like heat exhaustion and while he was in ninth with 150m to go, he wobbled into lane three, and staggered to line to finish 14th.
Then there’s the biggest surprise of night, Hasay. The second best NCAA 10,000m runner won’t run the event in front of her home crowd in Eugene. The second half of her race in Austin was the exact opposite of what we saw at Payton Jordan, where she started to pick up the pace in an effort to hit the IAAF “A” standard.
Yesterday, we just wanted it to end. Lap by lap, Hasay was passed by another competitor and eventually finished in 35:51.20, which was good for 18th.
While everyone is stunned at the result, the implications go a bit deeper. She still has a shot to run the 5K at nationals, but what about Oregon’s attempt to win another NCAA team title? Those valuable projected points in the 10k have been wiped off the board.
Why is the 10k run at NCAA regionals? The national field for the decathlon is determined by a descending list of twenty-four athletes. Why not do the same for the 10k? It’s not just about running on tired legs, but the drain the weather puts on the athletes’ bodies doesn’t help anyone from the west region. Or, as the Greeks called it, a Pyrrhic Victory.
Of course, this story isn’t without a bit of irony. Between praying to the Track God(s) for a cool front to miraculously blow in last night and looking at the rainy pictures from the men’s 10k at the East Regional, Austin finally got some cool weather.
It just so happened to be in the form of a torrential downpour that was eighteen hours too late.
Isn’t it ironic, don’t you think?
Edit: The two occasions in recent memory that it's ever rained really hard down here was the Texas State Meet and last night. Thanks a lot, weather.
SO!!!! SPRINTERS HATE COLD WEATHER BUT STILL HAVE TO RUN IN IT. EITHER MAKE THE 10K TOP 24 GO STRAIGHT TO NATIONALS ARE PICK ANOTHER EVENT. SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THE SO CALLED "BEST" COMPLAIN. ALL THESE RUNNERS ARE COMPETING IN THE SAME CONDITIONS. IF SHE HAD WON AND A SMALLER SCHOOL'S KID BEEN AFFECTED BY THE HEAT NOBODY WOULD SAY ANYTHING. SO AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED WHINERS
1. CRY A RIVER
2. BUILD A BRIDGE
3. GET OVER IT
The older folks can correct me if I'm wrong, but back in the 1960s-early 70s (which everyone seems to point as the track and field nirvana), my understanding is that there was no qualifying, if you wanted to go, you went. So, let's take it back to if you want to go, you go, no matter if you're some delusional rich kid who can't break 2:00 in the 800m or a double Olympic champ.
- If you're under an "A" standard (something on the very high end of tough, like 15:30 for the women's 5K, or 13:30 on the guys), then it works as it does now - NCAA picks up the tab for you and a coach, and you're guaranteed to have no more than three rounds (up to steeple, no more than two for the 5000m, and straight to final for 10K).
- If you have a "B" standard (for instance, average the time/distance/height for qualifier #16 over the past five years), no cash, but the same round privilege as an A
- everyone else, you pay your own way and have to start in the earliest of early rounds.
- Provides incentive to run well throughout the season (to get those buys, and hopefully NCAA money)
- Gives everyone else who wants the chance the ability to challenge
- Keeps the cost to the NCAA and host stable or even less, depending on the number of pay-your-way kids.
The NCAA picks up the tab for a coach and runner? Maybe in the "old days", but now the NCAA has moved on. This system sucks, they know it, and they are too complicated internally (like our government) to figure it out.
THE NCAA ON ALL LEVELS IS BAD FOR OUR SPORTS!
rojo wrote:
You use a govt analogy. IN reality, people who don't want regionals are like people on welfare, you think you deserve something for no work.
I hope your kids need Welfare you judgemental prick
Hasay not making it to Nationals is the drama of this meet. Just like HS, have to do it on the track.
To the 10k whiners how about sprinters who race 100, 200, 4x1 and maybe even 4x4 at their conference meet then again at preliminary meet and then again at nationals? Having the trial is part of the process and I don't see these people complaining in xc when they race a 10k at regional and then 9 days later race national xc 10k.
Up until about 1996 the Olympics and World Championships required a trial and final of the 10k just 3 days apart!
Until the current system was put in place there was a trial and final in the 5k at NCAA Nationals which made doubling 5 and 10 much harder. So many short-sighted or ignorant commentators blabbering on.
As for the other level of NCAA qualifying it should be stated it would be changed for their level if not cost prohibitive.
Could this meet be better? Sure I could fix it with a few simple steps I am happy to share but I will save that for another post on a night when I have more energy. Off to bed.
Not the most politically correct analogy there rojo. I think using a spoiled and privileged kid could suffice as well. Obviously doesn't fit all the time, but neither does your welfare analogy. Do some people abuse the system? Yes. Do others legitimately need it? Yes.
A Duck wrote:
As the poster above said, you can't run that many hard 10k's in a season.
Make the 10k's seeded on time, and no longer have them in regionals and and maybe things can work.
But, enough head coaches and schools, ftr, hate this system...no one wants to host it, and schools are being asked to host it as a favor.
1. I rarely see hard 10k's in conference or regionals.
2. Everyone has to run the rounds. There's not one person singled out in some conspiracy to hamper their performance.