Anyone else totally disgusted by Dathan Ritzenhein's comments about world cross country?

World Cross was never a priority for top runners. Maybe Pat Porter (who really wasn't a top track runner against the world).

I recall one year Bob Kennedy and Todd Williams placing top 10 at Worlds or very close but at that time US distance depth at 10k was weak. Teamwise the US was weak.

Over the last 7 years we have had depth to medal as a team at World Cross but that won't get the guys fired up to take that trip and recover without a payday.

Back in 1986 we had a team that did just that. Bruce Bickford was ranked number one in the world in 10,000 in 1985. Porter was 4th at IAAF World Cross in 1984. Virgin was still hanging on and he was a World Cross Champ in 1980 and 81. Plus Ed Eyestone who the year before set the American Collegiate 10,000 record. Keith Brantly was making a name winning road races and John Easker and Alan Scharsu were killer cross country runners in college against the stiff foereign competition at the time.

Porter and Bickford at that time had a huge rivalry. The Trials race was a grudge match between the two. But at that time, which is rare, the top US guys got together and got pumped about putting together a team to try to win a World Championship and they ran great to medal.

Totally different era today. The chance of winning is slim but if Rupp, Solinsky, Tegankamp, Derrick, Ritz, Meb, Abdi put a team at Worlds 2010-2012 they wouldn't be confident of going for a win over Kenya but it would have been the greatest US team ever and probably top 3.

The team in 1986 had top runners commit for a chance to win. As a team they were focused on that which was probably the only time it happened. The trip at that time of the year interrupts training and the race itself requires a lot of recovery. These days the value doesn't justify the cost. Which is a shame.

I don't think it's correct to identify Ritz as totally mercenary. If that were the case, he'd be capitalizing on his 2:07:47 in Chicago by doing a spring marathon, which he is not.

XC is not a marketable sport due its very nature, because it cannot be easily viewed by a large crowd in a central location. What other sport has that limitation? A XC meet is the most chaotic thing I have ever seen in sports.

For this reason, XC will never be a sport that has popular appeal. XC is for training, not making a living.

Ritz understands this.

Kind of a paradox. Major sponsors could step in and make it a big deal in the US. Money, exposure. Hype Rupp ane Ritz and the "Miracle on Dirt (or mud)" in NYC or Boston or Eugene. High School and Middle School Cross Country is HUGE. It could be made into something big. Unfortunately, as soon as a lot of money is involved, Kenyans and Ethiopians will step up and Americans will get their asses handed to them.

What paradox? XC was never a marketable sport ever ... even before the Kenyans and Ethiopians. However, there are some in the US who still want to hold onto the dream that XC was ever relevant.

However, I think they could make a big deal about track this year as Rupp puts on a show against international competition. It should be an exciting year and hopefully it will bring lots of new dollars into this sport.

Whilst I understand Ritz or any athlete wanting to make hay while the sun shies (i.e. payday) is there not some irony that in the article he mentions that the World Half Silver medal is one of his "great moments". I'd argue the world half is about as visible as world cross on the international scene....

Further, I'd be interested to know what Ritz makes in bonuses from Nike (+ others) for making a National Team and or for World Champs etc. Usually these are healthy - of course Nike may have only certain teams in their contarct with Ritz and WXC may not be one.

The real reason he's not doing it is because he's not good enough

i can understand his comments.

SlowFatMaster wrote:

I appreciate the arguments about Ritz being a pro and choosing to run where the money is.

Just curious if anyone knows the answer to this: When Kobe or Durant or other NBA greats play games at the Rucker, do they get any kind of appearance fee? Do NBA contracts have clauses about getting hurt in a schoolyard game?

The difference is- in order to run World XC (for free) Ritz would then NOT run the NYC 1/2 (for money).

It's different if say, he showed up at some small town 5k/10k and ran using it as part of his training.

There's no disruption to training/racing.

Kobe, et al still play their full slate of games and don't lose any money or training time.

This is a great thread with a lot of interesting points- your's was a very good point.

remember that those aren't his comments. Well, some are and some aren't. His comments are reasonable enough, but the bolded (invented) part of it is ridiculous, since it's totally out of character. I mean, come on, what public person is going to make such a blunt public statement as that bolded part? Hard to say how accurate it is, too -- talk about putting words into someone's mouth!

No one else put in a bid. I think the IAAF asked the Polish federation to help them out for 2013. The IAAF would love to his this event in a major city in the western world, but the bids aren't coming.

If you're right, then the IAAF is even more culpable than I thought. Did they really wait until late in the game, not reaching out to anyone, and then they went to the Polish (I repeat, Polish) Federation? So, imagine the following conversation between the IAAF and, say, Mary Wittenberg. "Mary, we need someone to host the World Championships in Cross. If it's in New York we'll have the very best long distance runners in the world. Interested?" Mary: "Sorry guys, I don't think we have an interest in hosting such an event." Really? Apart from this madness, how did the 2015 event end up in some godforsaken place in China?

i'd like to see NIKE recruit a USA cross country team, with teg, rupp, sol, ritz, bum, yager, meb, etc. running

and go for a medal.

if the guys were in 13 min 5k shape you'd have a barn burner.

a win by the USA would change the landscape totally for x-country.

I think that the roads and outdoor track should be it. Having cross country and indoor just waters stuff down,in my opinion.

I completely understand what he was saying. No one (the U.S. public at large) cares, understands, or appreciates the time, effort, significance, talent or any other qualitative or quantitative measure or perception concerning cross country...at any level beyond what their high school or college-age child might be involved in. Lots and lots of 'regular' people do 10Ks, half marathons, and marathons. Virtually none of them do, or did, cross country. Having said all that, I pay attention to cross country — at the national and international levels — as I know tons of us on these boards do. I And my memories of running high school cross country every fall, nearly 40 years ago...are some of the best memories of my life. As a fellow Michigander who saw Ritz run a 5K on a local high school track, as well the state high school cross country finals at Michigan International Speedway, I wish him nothing but the best...at whatever he decides to do.

Gimme a f-ing break wrote:

How many of you great lovers of cross country were planning to fly to Bydgoszcz to cheer Dathan on?

I didn't think so.

Too many fans are thinking only about what's good for themselves and not what's good for the sport. They should shell out whatever it costs to get to Bydgoszcz in order to support world cross country.

Ritz is not a world class runner. His heydays are over.

He's just facing the writing on the wall.

He's barely a year out from having run a sub-2:08 marathon, how is that not world class? Certainly not world leading, but surely world class? How many guys ran sub 2:08 last year?

[quote]Montesquieu wrote:

If you're right, then the IAAF is even more culpable than I thought. Did they really wait until late in the game, not reaching out to anyone, and then they went to the Polish (I repeat, Polish) Federation? So, imagine the following conversation between the IAAF and, say, Mary Wittenberg. "Mary, we need someone to host the World Championships in Cross. If it's in New York we'll have the very best long distance runners in the world. Interested?" Mary: "Sorry guys, I don't think we have an interest in hosting such an event." Really? Apart from this madness, how did the 2015 event end up in some godforsaken place in China?[quote]

The IAAF is not culpable of anything except not trying to phase WXC out too quickly.

Wake up and smell the coffee. The reason nobody bid is because nobody cares. WXC is being phased out by IAAF. 10000 on the track is being phased out by European RDs. In both cases, it's because nobody cares. The only long distance not being phased out is hobby jogger-centric road races. That's why there are so many young Kenyans doing marathons these days. Not because the marathon is so great, but because they have nowhere else to go.

Some people here may want to think that WXC and 10000s are sooooo important, but NOBODY ELSE DOES outside East Africa.