Why do women pace the 800m so terribly?

[quote]Los Soles wrote:

Your quote: This is different from most other race distances. It has to do with how the 800 is uniquely reliant on both anaerobic and aerobic systems.

I agree. The point I tried to make earlier is that few coaches recognize this and even fewer realize it differs from men to women based upon how long they spend completing the race. The time spent utilizing different energy systems varies because of this and few coaches take this into account when training female 800 runners.

This is the worst logic I have seen thus far, and is precisely the problem I was getting at when I started this thread.Only a novice runs the first lap by feel. An experienced racer knows that the beginning is supposed to feel easy.The only logical reason for an athlete to intentionally run 55s for the first lap is if they think they can come back in 58s or faster. You don't break other athletes by going out too fast, you only break yourself.

TrackCoach wrote:

In the case of Alysia, if you are capable of running a 51x 400m, which means going out in 55x is comfortable for you and something the other girls can't do, why not do it.

Actually a 2 second differential isn't bad, but most women (which is what this article is about) are well over 2 seconds.

[

1) ...there are basic physiological reasons why the 1st half of an 800m is always faster than the 2nd.

You May Call Me Mr. 800 wrote:

This has been stated by some, but I have yet to see a good physiological reason for this. And the first half is not "always" faster. See above

Athlete Name 400m 800m

1 Chanelle Price

Tennessee 58.64

(1) 58.64 2:01.66

(1) 1:03.03

2 Laura Roesler

Oregon 59.66

(4) 59.66 2:02.09

(2) 1:02.44

3 Kendra Chambers

Texas 59.41

(3) 59.41 2:03.91

(3) 1:04.50

4 Joy O'Hare

Stanford 59.73

(5) 59.73 2:04.29

(4) 1:04.57

5 Brett Zorich

UNLV 59.92

(7) 59.92 2:04.54

(5) 1:04.62

6 Lacey Bleazard

BYU 59.85

(6) 59.85 2:06.86

(6) 1:07.01

7 Boglarka Bozzay

Kansas State 59.93

(8) 59.93 2:07.40

(7) 1:07.47

8 Benita Taylor

Hampton 59.13

(2) 59.13 2:09.23

(8) 1:10.10

longjack wrote:

the girls just want to be like jim ryan.

or wilson kipkiter.

or....

ryan wanted to go 60+60+60+51 for his 3:51 mile.

good old kipkiter ran these splits.

200 in 23 flat (rabbit 22.8)

400 in 48.1

600 in 1:14.5?

800 in 1:41.25 WORLD RECORD

= 48.10 + 53.15!!!

check it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_C5SDNRyDw&feature=related

there should be little doubt that if johnny grey and one other got kip to 400m in 48 high (24 low plus 24 mid)and johnny grey alone got kip to 600m in 1:13 then you'd see 140 low to 139 high.

same goes for rush-d.

kip went thru in 48.3 , not 48.1

if you even out the splits of 23.0/25.3/26.2/26.7, the zurich 1'41.2wr was worth

1'40.51 !!!

he really shouda buried the 800wr that day

still woud hold it today ( albeit rudy's evened-out splits + lack of drafting to bell also give him about 1'40.5 - they are little different )

I would like to bump this thread to point out the following from today's 800m:

200m - 27.4 - on target for 1:49.6 pace

400m - 30.4 (~57.8) - on target for 1:55.6

600m - ???

800m - 2:01.06 (~62.2)

Now, they went out a bit too fast, but it wasn't that bad. However, pretty much everyone who didn't finish in the top 2-3 ran embarrassing races. 4th-8th places had positive splits of 6-8seconds, implying that their last 200m was more than 5s slower than their first.

I know for a fact that they have some of the best coaches in the country, so who is to blame?

MS3 Runner wrote:

I know for a fact that they have some of the best coaches in the country, so who is to blame?

You are clearly to blame for the fact that you posed what is obviously an opinion (they have some of the best coaches in the country) as a fact (I know for a fact).

Try to be more logical.

800m Coach 235 wrote:

[

1) ...there are basic physiological reasons why the 1st half of an 800m is always faster than the 2nd.

You May Call Me Mr. 800 wrote:

This has been stated by some, but I have yet to see a good physiological reason for this. And the first half is not "always" faster. See above

Actually I wrote:

"1) No, there are not. Running one half or the other faster is a result of a decision as to how to run it, not a result of 'basic physiological reasons'."

And you are correct, you have not and you will not see a good physiological reason for this. What you will see is a bunch of hand waving, basically akin to the form folks' hand waving about proper running form.

OK. I gave her some slack at Pre because I thought it may be good preparation.

But Montano almost messed up with the bad pacing today.

Yeah buddy 55 - 64 for 1:59!

More importantly, the first 200m was about 25-26 seconds. Splits were:~25~30 (55)~31 (1:16)~33 (1:59)Umm... what the...? She's obviously better than all the other American runners, but I really hope she rethinks her strategy (if you could call it that) when she gets to London if she wants to win a medal.

Leopardly wrote:

Yeah buddy 55 - 64 for 1:59!

Sorry, official splits:

1 Alysia Montano

(1) 26.55

(1) 29.34 55.88

(1) 30.7 11:26.59

(1) 32.50 1:59.08

She is physically the best, but with that strategy she will get killed in London. The Kenyan and the Russians will use her like a cheap sl*t.

The US women will struggle in London

She will change herstrategy in London. She will not need to lead. She'll go out in 57 tucked in behind a leader, and she'll feel comfortable. Easier to go from what she has been doing now to competing with faster women than to go from doing what the other US women did yesterday to trying to run even splits and catch people at the end.

She will change herstrategy in London. She will not need to lead. She'll go out in 57 tucked in behind a leader, and she'll feel comfortable. Easier to go from what she has been doing now to competing with faster women than to go from doing what the other US women did yesterday to trying to run even splits and catch people at the end.

Thank you msmanners, it's like the past few posters haven't realized that Alysia has already competed on the world scene, with great results, multiple times. Anybody watch the World Champs last year? She was relaxed over 400m and then kicked the last 150 to eat up a lot of the field...it sounds trite, but she really was making moves on third place. This woman knows what she's doing-she waits late to start racing, she races into shape, and there is no way ANYONE is going to use or abuse her on the international level. That's not the say the world isn't going to bring their A-game to London, I know they will, but Ms. Montano is no fool.

Can we get a little positive momentum built behind a chick that represents one of the US's best shots at a medal in the MD?