KENYA and DOPING

I have a serious question for anybody who knows: if doping is now widespread in Kenya, is it possible to look back to a time before this phenomenon to see how the Kenyans were doing, or was there no Kenyan program at all before the currently-alleged doping was introduced?

Other programs that have achieved dominance on a scale similar to Kenyan distance--Chinese distance, Russian throwing, East German long sprinting/mid distance, have all been exposed as fraudulent, even though all the same reasons were offered as are now offered for Kenyan dominance: harder work ethic, dedication, inherently superior genetic potential, sequestration, childhood selection and training, blah, blah, blah...

The same kinds of justifications were offered for Jamaican sprinting over the past couple of years, and seem to be offered for Kenyan distance.

Was there ever a time when Kenyan distance trained like anybody else, but had merely normal results?

The answer is simple, it was introduced slowly in the 90s by italian ,german and dutch doctors, managers, coaches and agents.

So the Kenyans Ereng (gold 800m), Rono (gold 1500m), Ngugi (gold 5000m), and Kariuki (gold steeple) were all un-doped in Seoul in 1988?

Of the mid-d/distance events in Seoul:

800m - gold

1500m - gold

5000m - gold

10000m - bronze

steeple - gold & silver

marathon - silver

I'm not expressing any opinion with this, BTW.

That contrasts with only a bronze in the 10000m and a gold in the steeple in 1984 in L.A.

Boycotts in 1980 and 1976

In 1972, 800m bronze, 1500m silver, and steeple gold and silver.

I lived in Nairobi for almost three years (near Westlands most of the time). That doesn't mean I know anything in particular about Kenyan distance runners or doping.

But I know this: it would be no problem for me to find a Kenyan pharmacist/doctor who, if asked, would tell a mzungu that they could help dope distance runners and had experience doing so. It would also be no problem to find a Kenyan who, if asked, would tell a mzungu that they could prove that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. Or a Kenyan who would, if I asked him, claim to know where that precious metal Madeupium might be mined in Kenya.

For many Kenyans (not all!), the standard response to questions of the form "do you know..." or "can you help me with ..." is "Yes" if a mzungu (white foreigner) is the one asking, particularly if the mzungu is a stranger. In my opinion, the motivation is a variable mix of cultural factors (wanting to be helpful) and economic factors (helping mzungus is often seen as the road to wealth).

In fact, this is a regular challenge in daily life for expats living in Kenya. Ask a taxi driver in Nairobi, "Do you know the way to X?" or the guy at the computer shop "can you unlock my iPhone?" and 90% of the time, the answer is going to be "yes" ... even if they have no clue.

While the German journalist is apparently well-respected, I wonder how much experience he has in East Africa or other developing nations, where simply being white means you are assumed to be wealthy and powerful and, as such, people (like people everywhere) have a tendency to give you answers that seem likely to lead to you sharing some of that wealth with them. That the journalist initiated the discussion by asking questions specifically about doping may seem like a minor point, but in this context that makes a big difference (in my opinion). If he hadn't said anything about doping, and just identified himself as a manager, and was then offered doping services, that would be much more significant.

Look, I really have no idea who is doping. The Kenyans could be doped to the gills for all I know. But from my experience I would not take this report as evidence of much of anything. If you think otherwise (and are white) I suggest going to Nairobi and asking people if they know where you can buy the iPhone 7 and see what kind of answers you get.

I find it funny that many see east africa as some kind of super pure place full of altruists.

Have you ever spent time with a group of kenyans? The amount of philandering, lying, stealing etc that goes on is EPIC.

From someone who has spent a lot of time in Kenya, the above post (by A Mzungu Perspective) is brilliant. I doubt that the majority of posters/readers on LRC will appreciate how well written that post was... but anyone who has lived in Kenya certainly would. That absolutely hit the nail on the head (without making any assumptions regarding guilt or innocence).

I agree with you.

bump

I am a Kenyan myself and I agree with you 100%. Kenyans have a weakness when it comes to saying no to westerners, these reporter would get what he asked for from 6 out of 10 doctors just because of the thought of money. Kenya is not overly requlated like the US or Europe, this leaves a vacuum that anyone can claim. The doctor seems to have seen dollars and saw the opporunity to take advantage, Most Kenyans will take you for a ride if they know you don't belong. If you go to Nairobi and ask for a drug that would make your husband dumb, you will find it. if you ask for a baby even a white baby, you will get it. Nairobi will get you a fake id, passport and fake dollars. I am sad to say but that is my city.

So you're saying that kenyans are compulsive liars?

Compulsive liars with a great need for money definitely sounds like a good recipe for doping from where I sit

trollism wrote:

[quote]Junk Master wrote:

The secret to the Kenyans success is simple-- it's impossible to find a population with a larger number of healthy males that have a lower BMI.

Thin wins. No calves. No forearms. No thighs. No biceps. No extra weight. No excessive dieting that leaves them depleted and injury prone.

Sure, drugs work for Kenyans, but they're so dominant, they'll sweep every marathon without them.

This comes from a person that knows little. Kenyans never have and never will win everything. WRs for 5000 and 10000 men have been taken by Ethiopians for the past 15 yrs. Moroccans have won a lot. Don't lump all Africans in together.

Running in Kenyan is a serious affair, the believe that you can win without needing assistance but by training hard is core. People outside of running are the one's who may get in and exploit the runners hard work and it seems that the doctor has done that

Runthedistance wrote:

Running in Kenyan is a serious affair, the believe that you can win without needing assistance but by training hard is core. People outside of running are the one's who may get in and exploit the runners hard work and it seems that the doctor has done that

Reverse racism is still racism. Kenyans are humans just like anyone else. Add in the fact that many Kenyans live on the edge of starvation/sickness and you have a situation where people ARE willing to say/do things that they would not otherwise do. It does not make them better or worse than any other person. They are a product of their environment (like we all are). There are some FILTHY managers, but there are also a LOT of GOOD managers who get taken for a ride by Kenyans. In many cases it is the honest managers who get exploited (by the athletes) more than the corrupt managers.

You can take drugs in Kenya but you will have to move far far away from Kenya and don't let anybody know. Kenyans will not tain the sport that they adore. Kenyans live and value their community way of life where everyone should do good but not ruin that which helps the people. If you dope, you ruin the lives of the young and your value in that community is ruin forever

Runthedistance wrote:

You can take drugs in Kenya but you will have to move far far away from Kenya and don't let anybody know. Kenyans will not tain the sport that they adore. Kenyans live and value their community way of life where everyone should do good but not ruin that which helps the people. If you dope, you ruin the lives of the young and your value in that community is ruin forever

Mate, I honestly appreciate your optimism, but you are not speaking from experience. Kenyans SAY Kenyans dope. That also taints the sport, but they still say it. You have to understand that Kenyans run for $$$$ NOT (99% of the time) for the love of the sport. That doesn't make them corrupt, however, it does make them vulnerable.

Also, keep in mind that by turning a blind eye to the Kenyans who ARE dirty you are doing a disservice to the many Kenyans (and others) who are clean.

gramthlete wrote:

So, um...you're suggestion that official athletics bodies stop testing for athletes doping so as to concentrate on failing banking systems and economies?

Yes of course!

I've never heard of that reporter but wouldn't be surprised if he was on the payroll of the chemical companies, the only ones who benefit from all the problems they cause.

Who are these Kenyans who say we dope? The runners or the guy in the street? I am a kenya and I say we don't dope and my family and my friends and community say we don't dope.