PS: I have no idea what the significance of a 64s last lap is supposed to mean?
PS: I have no idea what the significance of a 64s last lap is supposed to mean?
malmo wrote:
After watching the video I would say that "possibly" is an understatement. Jager isn't "potentially one heck of a steeplechaser" nor is he "a project". Jager is the best American steeplechaser I've ever seen. He could be giving clinics right now.
For a neophypte he does everything right. It appears that his natural lead leg is his right, but when he leads with his left there's a slight upper body rotation. Pretty much every steeplechaser who has ever lived does that off the "wrong" leg. He's got no lapses of confidence going into the barriers, and what I really like most of all, is that if put into the lead he attacks.
It remains to be seen how he does when he runs out near his physical edge, but I have a hunch that 8:05 to 8:10 will be his sweet spot this year.
Needless to say, I'm very impressed.
I'm completely befuddled how Schumacher could get it so wrong with Bethke, yet have had this kid under his nose undetected all this time? Now it appears that both runners have found their real events.
Great post. As to Jager being undetected "all this time," remember that he's only 23. The kid ran 3:38/13:22 as a 20-year old, so I can see the logic in keeping his focus there for a few years as opposed to moving to the steeple. It seems like Jager's been around forever to all of us but that is just because we've been following him since he ran 8:47/4:05 in high school.
He also has a surgically-repaired navicular, so Schumacher had good reason to hold off on the steeple.
Evan is a beautiful runner who ran 13:20s like 3 years ago and has struggled with injury ever since. The 8:26 shows he has potential in the steeple, but that's only because the steeple is such a weak event for Americans. He's really making a smart decision here switching to it as it should give him the best chance at making the Olympic team. If he had not been injured so much, I'm sure he could have run a sub 13 5k by now with as good and talented as he is. This 8:26 shouldn't really come as a surprise.
malmo wrote:
is the promise ring dead? wrote:This might be the runner that America needs for this event. Jager could not only be one heck of a steeplechaser and possibly break the U.S. record later on in his career,
After watching the video I would say that "possibly" is an understatement. Jager isn't "potentially one heck of a steeplechaser" nor is he "a project". Jager is the best American steeplechaser I've ever seen. He could be giving clinics right now.
For a neophypte he does everything right. It appears that his natural lead leg is his right, but when he leads with his left there's a slight upper body rotation. Pretty much every steeplechaser who has ever lived does that off the "wrong" leg. He's got no lapses of confidence going into the barriers, and what I really like most of all, is that if put into the lead he attacks.
It remains to be seen how he does when he runs out near his physical edge, but I have a hunch that 8:05 to 8:10 will be his sweet spot this year.
Needless to say, I'm very impressed.
I'm completely befuddled how Schumacher could get it so wrong with Bethke, yet have had this kid under his nose undetected all this time? Now it appears that both runners have found their real events.
Schumacher makes mistakes but tends to learn from them. It appears that he has done this again in this case.
Jaeger and Huling grew up in towns about 20 miles apart (Algonquin and Geneva). If they could both get in it would be cool to have two Olympians in the same event from the West/NW suburbs.
113 wrote:
As to Jager being undetected "all this time," remember that he's only 23. The kid ran 3:38/13:22 as a 20-year old, so I can see the logic in keeping his focus there for a few years as opposed to moving to the steeple.
And THIS sort of thinking is EXACTLY why the U.S. will never have great steeplers. When you take a look at all the steeplers in the low to mid 8:0x range, they can all run the 5K in 13:05-15 and the 1500m in the 3:33-38 range as well. But here in the U.S. guys in that range stay in those events because they are more glamorous. If we are ever to have someone run in the 8:04 and hope to challenge for a medal ever, we need those type of guys to make the switch.
Jager has always had a Kenyan-like fluid, bouncy and relaxed stride (enhanced by his flowing locks), so it is not at all surprising to see him do well in this event. Another guy who would fit this event if he ever came back is Lukas V..
If he had put his hair in a pony-tail or cut it, he would've had the "A" standard. Not sure that running another one so soon at Payton Jordan is smart given his foot issues in the past. Sure, he'll probably get the standard, but perhaps he should run over or under-distance at that meet.
Word on the street is he will pace Bumbi, Teg, Lomong in the 5,000 at Payton Jordan.
M.C. Confusing wrote:
And THIS sort of thinking is EXACTLY why the U.S. will never have great steeplers. When you take a look at all the steeplers in the low to mid 8:0x range, they can all run the 5K in 13:05-15 and the 1500m in the 3:33-38 range as well. But here in the U.S. guys in that range stay in those events because they are more glamorous. If we are ever to have someone run in the 8:04 and hope to challenge for a medal ever, we need those type of guys to make the switch.
Not sure why they're more glamorous other than being more well known. It's terribly boring to watch 25 or even 12.5 laps compared to a shorter event with a bit of adventure and technique thrown in. They all have their own "natural" time barriers. 13 and 27 have been pierced. Now it's time to focus on 8:00. I would think an American great could carve out a glamorous career running both the steeple and cross country, where depth is lacking.
M.C. Confusing wrote:
And THIS sort of thinking is EXACTLY why the U.S. will never have great steeplers. When you take a look at all the steeplers in the low to mid 8:0x range, they can all run the 5K in 13:05-15 and the 1500m in the 3:33-38 range as well. But here in the U.S. guys in that range stay in those events because they are more glamorous. If we are ever to have someone run in the 8:04 and hope to challenge for a medal ever, we need those type of guys to make the switch.
Huh? How is Jager not one of those type of guys? He ran 13:22/3:38 as a 20-year old. He's 23... if he stays healthy, don't you think he has a good chance to lower those marks in the next 3-5 years?
113 wrote:
Huh? How is Jager not one of those type of guys? He ran 13:22/3:38 as a 20-year old. He's 23... if he stays healthy, don't you think he has a good chance to lower those marks in the next 3-5 years?
You miss my point. I was replying to the guy who said it made sense for Jager to stick with those events for a couple of years before switching over. THAT thinking is what I have the problem with.
I do think Jager could be an 8:10 type guy in a couple of years. Not sure about 8:00-8:05 though. Think you need to be a 3:34/13:05 guy for that.
M.C. Confusing wrote:
113 wrote:Huh? How is Jager not one of those type of guys? He ran 13:22/3:38 as a 20-year old. He's 23... if he stays healthy, don't you think he has a good chance to lower those marks in the next 3-5 years?
You miss my point. I was replying to the guy who said it made sense for Jager to stick with those events for a couple of years before switching over. THAT thinking is what I have the problem with.
I do think Jager could be an 8:10 type guy in a couple of years. Not sure about 8:00-8:05 though. Think you need to be a 3:34/13:05 guy for that.
Really? Can anyone bring up Henry Marsh, Croghan, and Dan Lincoln's prs at 1500 and 5000? I know Marsh or Croghan rarely raced outside the steeple but I can't recall them ever being faster than 13:30 or 3:39.
I would think a great steepler that can run 3:38 and 7:40 can hit 8:05 in the steeple. The 5000 ability isn't as important.
M.C. Confusing wrote:
You miss my point. I was replying to the guy who said it made sense for Jager to stick with those events for a couple of years before switching over. THAT thinking is what I have the problem with.
I do think Jager could be an 8:10 type guy in a couple of years. Not sure about 8:00-8:05 though. Think you need to be a 3:34/13:05 guy for that.
But for this being an Olympic year, Jager could hit 8:10 this year, certainly sub-8:15, and he still might.
break it up wrote:
I would think a great steepler that can run 3:38 and 7:40 can hit 8:05 in the steeple. The 5000 ability isn't as important.
If Jager can stay healthy, he will have the AR in the steeple and go 8:05, maybe sniff 8:00. 8:26 in a debut is nothing to sneeze at. Just wait until he matures, gets accustomed to the event, and catches a fast race in Europe somewhere. He's got the raw leg speed.
malmo wrote:
It remains to be seen how he does when he runs out near his physical edge, but I have a hunch that 8:05 to 8:10 will be his sweet spot this year.
Needless to say, I'm very impressed.
I am very impressed that at least in this case, Malmo, you showed signs of assessment, extrapolation and prediction capability that rivals moi at my best. Congrats.
Kanye North wrote:
malmo wrote:When Huling beats Jager I suppose you might have a point. Until that day comes Huling has never been closer than 7 seconds to Jager in a steeplechase.
When I want a stupid comment, I can always count on malmo coming through.
I was wondering what this thread would yield this week. Huling cannot touch Jager at this point. This is the only time, other than when he fell that he has lost and he was on his way to an easy win then. Aside from his heat at the Trials he has gotten better each race, and this one did not slice just a bit off his PR. This might be the biggest PR improvement for a US AR. It definitely is the biggest improvement from his PR prior to the beginning of the season (even if he did actually run one after high school).
People challenging malmo on racing usually end up on the short end of the stick; those doing so in the steeple shouldn't even bother.
"Jager isn't "potentially one heck of a steeplechaser" nor is he "a project". Jager is the best American steeplechaser I've ever seen. He could be giving clinics right now."
This should be QOTD, perhaps QOTY.