SUB-4 MILE Training

Lagat is a great example to show the fallacy of his entire fast steady run training.

There's a huge difference between him and Bekele, and the reason is the training. Lagat has run 3:26 for the 1500m and only runs 12:53 for the 5k. Comparatively, he maximizes his speed for the finish.

Bekele, however, maximizes his speed endurance over the entire distance of the race. He's run only 3:32 for the 1500m, but 12:37 for the 5k and 26:17 for the 10k, times that are well beyond the reach of Lagat.

Lagat is not exactly a failure. I doubt KB will run 12:53 at

age 37. You are comparing apples and oranges since his 3:26

was over a decade ago and in his primetime.

J.R. wrote:

Lagat is a great example to show the fallacy of his entire fast steady run training.

No

There's a huge difference between him and Bekele

Yes, the difference is that Lagat is still competitive at 5000m at age 37 and in 7 years Bekele will not be

Lagat has run 3:26 for the 1500m and only runs 12:53 for the 5k.

He ran 3:26 over 10 years ago

Only an idiot would expect him to run the equivalent of 3:26 at 5k over 10 years later

Bekele, however, maximizes his speed endurance over the entire distance of the race. He's run only 3:32 for the 1500m, but 12:37 for the 5k and 26:17 for the 10k

Uhh, 12:53 for 5k is much, much better than 3:32 for 1500, let alone doing it TEN YEARS past his best at 1500, compared to Bekele who ran 3:32 2 years or so after his PR seasons

times that are well beyond the reach of Lagat.

Just as 3:26 is beyond the reach of Bekele

Your post is absolutely ridiculous

Lagat is good, at what he does, but he is not able to lead a fast pace all the way. Even in the 1500m he has never taken the pace like El G.

Even now, Lagat can run the 1500m faster than Bekele's best, so he still has the speed, but can't run any faster than 12:53 for the 5k, and that's following, due to the failure of his training to prepare him.

I'm comparing exactly what I'm taking about. Obviously some people can't see this, and that doesn't change anything.

bump. What type of 3k time does one need to break 4? sub 8?

I was under the impression that sub 1:50 sub 4,sub 8 and sub 14 were comparable. Obviously a number of guys have broken 4 who haven't broken 1:50 or 8, so some people's sweet spot lies in between.

J.R. wrote:

Lagat is good, at what he does, but he is not able to lead a fast pace all the way. Even in the 1500m he has never taken the pace like El G.

Even now, Lagat can run the 1500m faster than Bekele's best, so he still has the speed, but can't run any faster than 12:53 for the 5k, and that's following, due to the failure of his training to prepare him.

I'm comparing exactly what I'm taking about. Obviously some people can't see this, and that doesn't change anything.

Wow for once I agree with Ventolin. I don't think low-mileage, high intensity is the best training for everyone, but it's obviously worked extremely well for Lagat. To suggest otherwise is utterly absurd. You're essentially implying that Lagat, who's almost 40, should be challenging the 5k world record but can't because he doesn't train right. Tell me you don't actually believe the tripe you're posting

idiot

any guy who runs 3'26 can lead a fast pace all the way

it just happened that hicham was the main draw in bernie's quick 1500s & he obviously believed tucking in & waiting to kick in last lap was maximizing his chances to win

you obviously never saw his 3'27 in '04 when he did beat hicham & was chomping at the bit behind him & only kicked at ~ 100m out when he shouda gone at least 200+ out & got close to the wr

sadly, the athens final soon after was a "800 race" where he was disadvantaged

moron

that's because of the slow 4th km in all of his quick races

the paris race had a reasonable, but still not great 4th km & 6 guys went 12'46/12'49

if bernie had been in that race he'd also have gone sub-12'50 & i'd bet good money 12'48 at worst

drivel

likely 12'48 ability last year in still non-even race is no "failure"

eh ?

that peabrain thinking woud still have gebremeskel as a 12'53 guy if he'd skipped that paris race, but fortunately for the revision of all-time lists he ran it, with 12'46 with a 54 finish as a result

bump.

bumping this. more training advice, less bickering about pointless drivel.

bump

Would love to hear stories/reading training outlines from anyone else with firsthand experience

Thought of this thread from 3 yrs ago randomly today in my run. Did "pipedreamz" ever hit his dub4? You out there, man?

I'm getting closer to the 4 minute mark currently running a 4:08 in high school. We tend to do speed work Monday with 10 400M repeats at 56 seconds each for me. Tuesday is followed by a long run 8-10 miles at e-pace, 7:00-7:30 pace for me. Wednesday we have 4 miles in the morning and 6-8 easy in the afternoon. Thursday is a 3-5 mile tempo, last 2 miles are usually end up a race pace. Friday is either a recovery run like 6 miles or premeet. (different people do different premeets) the Saturday is either the meet with a 4 mile cool down run after all events or another speed work day. sunday is either rest/recovery or an easy 4 miler

I'm getting closer to the 4 minute mark currently running a 4:08 in high school. We tend to do speed work Monday with 10 400M repeats at 56 seconds each for me. Tuesday is followed by a long run 8-10 miles at e-pace, 7:00-7:30 pace for me. Wednesday we have 4 miles in the morning and 6-8 easy in the afternoon. Thursday is a 3-5 mile tempo, last 2 miles are usually end up a race pace. Friday is either a recovery run like 6 miles or premeet. (different people do different premeets) the Saturday is either the meet with a 4 mile cool down run after all events or another speed work day. sunday is either rest/recovery or an easy 4 miler

So you did 10 x 400 in 56. With out including the actual recovery interval, distance or time, you might as well leave off the 56 and say you did 10 x 400.

Doing 10 x 400 in 56 with 60 sec recovery is quite different from 10 x 400 in 56 with full recovery. No one can get a reference on the point of the sessionwith out the recovery.

Wow, I'd forgotten that I'd even started this thread. Yes, I finally accomplished my goal 2 years ago this coming summer with my very own and shiny 3:59. I actually incorporated quite a bit of what usedabe suggested, but with some minor tweaks here and there. I improved my endurance significantly while maintaining my speed. I even quit my job to go train in Finland, and race in b and c list races over Europe. It paid off, and I got a "real" job after. Currently am enjoying just going out and jogging on trails to maintain some semblance of fitness. Funny to get on here tonight and see this!

Awesome, would be interested in hearing specifically what you changed and how the race went.

Pipedreamz wrote:

Wow, I'd forgotten that I'd even started this thread. Yes, I finally accomplished my goal 2 years ago this coming summer with my very own and shiny 3:59. I actually incorporated quite a bit of what usedabe suggested, but with some minor tweaks here and there. I improved my endurance significantly while maintaining my speed. I even quit my job to go train in Finland, and race in b and c list races over Europe. It paid off, and I got a "real" job after. Currently am enjoying just going out and jogging on trails to maintain some semblance of fitness. Funny to get on here tonight and see this!

Finland? Congratulations!

Here is Tinman discussing the training of Drew Hunter, who broke four for the first time in the first week of February in his second race of the indoor season. The XC training got him 95% of the way there.

here's the overview of Drew's buildup:

July and August started with low volume distance per-day and per-week, building from about 5 miles a day to about 10 miles per day (a gradual building), on average. Some days are a little higher (like the long run day of 90 minutes); other days were shorter, on his recovery runs. During those two month, short tempos, CV fartlek, striders, and introduction to hills via distance runs were included.

September included an assigned number of CV intervals, striders, tempo progression runs, long runs, a couple of cross country races, and one semi-hard interval workout in lieu of a race, when he visited the University of Oregon. The workout was on wood-chips, mostly. (Drew traveled on recruiting trips during September, so that limited his number of races. He visited the University of Wisconsin, Stanford, and the University of Oregon.)

October was a weekly race, a key workout that combined CV and hills, plenty of striders and a weekly long run of 90 minutes.

November was an extension of October, but a a small number of work closer to V.O2 max - on weeks when not racing - plus a weekly modest volume controlled fartlek was run, including an assigned number of 30 second time reps at specific speeds.

December was peaking, with a hard 3 x 1600m and 3 x 40 second hill workout a week before the national race. The week of the race was a limited CV workout with a short time trial; 30 second fartlek reps were still included in lower volume. The last key workout was completed a week before the race; the workout was run on the track; although it was originally scheduled to be run on grass. I watched it on Facetime and communicated with Drew, Joan, and Marc Hunter, providing feedback and directions. Drew ran the workout in sweats. It was a cut-down workout. The last 1600m rep was 4:13, and that was still well under control with intermediate splits of 62+ 2:07, and 3:12.

CV workouts go something like 6-8 x 1000 around 10k date pace plus 2-6 x 200 around mile pace.