I helped pace a friend in the time period where hall would have been going from around 14-24. I was a lot hotter than I like to be when I'm racing and I was just running 7 minute miles. Going out on a limb, I'd say this would be harder for him to handle than most of the front pack.
Rod Dixon ran a 2:08:59. In New York. In 1983.
DaveW wrote:
What did Rod run for the Marathon?
haha YO wrote:
That's not going to happen by racing more, that's going to happen by training more and training smarter.
Actually, it would happen by racing more on the track and in x-country. The pattern's obvious: the further Hall has gotten away from the shorter races, the more his fitness has suffered.
You saw the same pattern with Webb. He was most successful when he ran a few x-country races in the fall. When he abandoned that, his performances on the track progressively declined.
Surely these guys know this, but x-country and underdistance track races are physically hard, and they can be even harder on the ego.
wowsa wrote:
but at the end of the day, jesus loves east africans more.
end of discussion.
Fire your coach, bro.
I've gotta admit, though, that he is having some success that you rarely see with someone who is self coached.
I want to see him win races and medals like everyone else, but I also want to see what kind of runners he produces when he hangs up the spikes and goes into coaching.
If he can coach himself this well, I wonder what he could do for someone else.
It was announced 55F. 2 of the top 4 PR'd- 1 by 2 mins. Course record too. Chicago is flat & fast and had little wind- great conditions.
mr. giddy. wrote:
I've gotta admit, though, that he is having some success that you rarely see with someone who is self coached.
I want to see him win races and medals like everyone else, but I also want to see what kind of runners he produces when he hangs up the spikes and goes into coaching.
If he can coach himself this well, I wonder what he could do for someone else.
Isn't bekele self coached?
the most competitive distance in running today is the marathon.
hall produced 208 flat - two and a half minutes back of the winner and a current world record holder.
hall is still a 206 marathoner on his best day.
this is a very good performance, hall is good for 3-4-5 in the best marathon fields.
if hall can get back to 59x for the half, then i like his chances in getting a major marathon win.
"I don't feel like I've ever run a bad marathon, that's why I'm not disappointed. It was exactly what I hoped it would be, I learned a lot in my training leading up to this and I learned a lot in the race itself. There's not too many Americans out there running 2:08 so I'll take it." -- Ryan Hall.
"He has (breaking the world record) in his mind. He knows that to win the Olympics or win a World Championship is very nice, but it means you are the best that day. When you break a world record it means to be the best of ever. That is the mentality for him." -- Renato Canova, coach of Moses Mosop, discussing his athlete's desire to break the world record. He believes it is possible for Mosop to run 2:02.
These quotes should tell you a lot about why Hall is running the times he is and why Mosop is running the times he is. Hall needs to compare himself to a higher standard! Hall has the chassis and engine to compete with the best, he just needs to be tuned differently both physically and mentally. What is so frustrating to the many Americans out there is we know he CAN do better but he just seems to be happy where he is...at least he is better than the Americans?!
In any sport, you will not get better unless you compare yourself to a higher standard, train harder, train smarter, compete against better competition. It is good that Hall now recognizes that he needs to improve his half marathon time. Hopefully he will recognize a few more of his needs before the marathon changes even more.
Hall "My turnover wasn't quite as good as I was hoping it would be, so anytime we would throw down a quicker mile it would get difficult for me and take me out of my rhythm."
Hall is a mono-pace runner. He cannot handle surges that the Africans throw in during the middle of the race. He must start doing these surges in his training and long runs to prepare like the Africans do. He only has one gear during a marathon. He needs a good coach unless he wants to continue to lose.
Exactly.
2:08 in warm conditions and 5th place in a major marathon is not disappointing. It is on par with his previous performances.
Ryan Hall is one of the best marathoners in the world, but not the best. Don't expect him to be and you will not be disappointed.
longjack wrote:
hall produced 208 flat - two and a half minutes back of the winner and a current world record holder.
You should really mark this with an asterisk. Yes, Mosop may be a WR holder, but the 30,000m isn't really a competitive distance.
[quote]Calling it like it is wrote:
2:08 in warm conditions and 5th place in a major marathon is not disappointing. It is on par with his previous performances.
Ryan Hall is one of the best marathoners in the world, but not the best. Don't expect him to be and you will not be disappointed.[/quote
solid point.
Calling it like it is wrote:
2:08 in warm conditions and 5th place in a major marathon is not disappointing. It is on par with his previous performances.
Ryan Hall is one of the best marathoners in the world, but not the best. Don't expect him to be and you will not be disappointed.
Exactly.
Kenard wrote:
Calling it like it is wrote:2:08 in warm conditions and 5th place in a major marathon is not disappointing. It is on par with his previous performances.
Ryan Hall is one of the best marathoners in the world, but not the best. Don't expect him to be and you will not be disappointed.
Exactly.
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Hall has never done well in the heat. Olympics - worst finish for him ever. Chicago - decent finish, but disappointing time for him. Olympic trials - cold enough for "arm warmers" and he blasted the field. Boston - cool, and he runs a great time. He needs to have a solid block of training, stay healthy, and get lucky with the weather. THEN, he will be a threat to win, not just place.
You guys are putting too much pressure on Rupp and Hall. They are mixing it up with the top 10 best in the world. Rupp was in two finals at the last World Championships. To tell you the truth I am still getting over Centos 3 place finish at the World Championships. Boy that was the shot in the arm US distance running needed.
The Europeans have essentially given up so it is up to these few brave Americans. If Hall gets down to 2:06 on an official coarse that would be a big deal. I am realistic and don't expect Hall to run 2:03, that is the territory of the great African runners. Still, with a population of over now 300 million people there is bound to be someone in the US that can run 2:03. We just don’t know where that person is.
Ryan Hall did get down to 2:06:17 for sixth place in London in 2007, which was definitely a legitimate course, and it was a big deal.
That is 70th best performance of all time, second best non-african performance behind Takaoka (2:06:16) and second best distance performance ever for non-african runner including track (3k-Marathon, Iaaf points).
14th best run ever in London!
To put 2:08:04 into perspective: 2:08:04 won Paris 2005 and Abel Kirui ran 2:08:04 in London 2010.
2:08:07 won Xiamen 2011. Paul Tergat ran 2:08:15 for second place in London 2001.
To learn from this? Either he can improve, or he should look for races that he can win - he could improve from that mentally.