Allyson Felix vs. Jenny Simpson: 800 Meters

Juantorena was not one of the best 200m runners in the world.

He was a 400/800 guy, Felix is a 200/400 runner. Big difference.[/quote]

I agree with you & Sir Lance, the point I was making was that even as a 400/800 m runner Juantorena was a one off. Very few can do both

Doclove wrote:

'I guess you've never heard of Alberto Juantorena.'

The exception that proves the rule

'Felix is capable of running under 2 minutes for 800, and it would not take "years and years" of additional training. She is already a well trained athlete, so she would just need to tweak her training a bit.'

Well done, you also know nothing about running. Like I said why does some 51 second girl just tweak her training a bit more and win gold?

Because she already has the speed. Kind of like Haile Gebreselassie tweaking his 10k training to become the best marathoner.

Once again, the morons cannot think outside of the box. They are trapped in this narrow prism in which they view everything, and consequently, notions which are above their capacity to comprehend, they dismiss as outrageous.

One of the main reasons there are very few examples of 100 or 200 meter stars posting good 800 meter times is that precious few really try it, and really, who can blame them?

However, much like Canova believes that taking a 26:30-45 10000 runner in his prime and making him a marathoner could lead to world record times in the marathon, it is clear that a few (not all) 200-400 type sprinters (which Felix is) could be trained in their prime to become good and possibly great 800 meter runners. Felix is not blazing fast. She is a beautiful runner with a tremendous strength to weight ratio, and she could likely be trained to become a sub 2 800m runner, and maybe a medalist. However, she is already a highly decorated athlete with multiple Olympic and WC medals, so we probably will never see this, much as we never saw what Sihine could have done in the marathon, because he ran 26:39 in 2004 and is now past the time when he could show us his absolute capability in the marathon.

sorry; you, didn"t really read. or. understand; my post^& if; you're righting what you rote... If these banned substances help you relatively differently for different distances whatsoever, you must reject your assertion. Even then, thats one person. anyone knows that a decent sample size is needed to make statements like yours. C'mon dude, you know i'm right. Deep down you feel frustrated reading this because a little part of you knows im right, and the rest of you is trying to smother that part of yourself, and it hurts you. Admit it to yourself and retract the statement. You can write paragraphs on it but unless you can explain it succinctly and quickly you are likely wrong. All evidence flies in the face of your argument, sir. Be a scientist brother.

newsclues wrote:

sorry; you, didn"t really read. or. understand; my post^& if; you're righting what you rote... If these banned substances help you relatively differently for different distances whatsoever, you must reject your assertion. Even then, thats one person. anyone knows that a decent sample size is needed to make statements like yours. C'mon dude, you know i'm right. Deep down you feel frustrated reading this because a little part of you knows im right, and the rest of you is trying to smother that part of yourself, and it hurts you. Admit it to yourself and retract the statement. You can write paragraphs on it but unless you can explain it succinctly and quickly you are likely wrong. All evidence flies in the face of your argument, sir. Be a scientist brother.

You are more obtuse than I thought. I have anticipated your lame arguments and already spit them out with the alacrity which they warranted, utterly exposing your sophistry with dazzling prose.

Is this a serious question? Currently Simpson, hands down. If Felix decided to train for the 800m leading into 2016? Then things would get really interesting...

Another lunatic wrote:

Jesse is a friend wrote:

Felix is not blazing fast.

If she isn't "blazing fast", no woman is.

Well, Felix has run the 267th fastest peformance by a woman at 100 meters. She performs better at 200 and 400.

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

Juantorena was not one of the best 200m runners in the world.

He was a 400/800 guy, Felix is a 200/400 runner. Big difference.

Felix was THE BEST 200 runner in the world, and 100m NATIONAL CHAMP. Juantorena did nothing comparable in the 100/200 to that.[/quote]

Surprised that no one has brought mentioned the American 800m record holder in this discussion, Jearl Miles Clark.

Clark moved up from the 400 but she was clearly more of a 400/800 runner. Comparing Clark and Felix:

Clark, Felix

11.78, 10.93

21.82, 23.03

49.59, 49.40

1:56.40, no time

They are very close in the 400 but Felix is clearly a far superior sprinter while Clark was better as distance increased.

Of course Felix would not need to run 1:56 to defeat Simpson, 2:00 might do it. Still, that seems a bit of stretch for Felix.

Just realized I have Clark and Felix's 400 times reversed. They should be:

Clark, Felix

11.78, 10.93

21.82, 23.03

49.40, 49.59

1:56.40, no time

Clark is slightly faster at 400.

'Just realized I have Clark and Felix's 400 times reversed. They should be'

You fecked up the 200m times as well

Felix time over 200m is actually better than her 400m which shows she is already starting to drop at this distance

ukathleticscoach wrote:

'Just realized I have Clark and Felix's 400 times reversed. They should be'

You fecked up the 200m times as well

Felix time over 200m is actually better than her 400m which shows she is already starting to drop at this distance

This is idiocy. You could just as easily say her 200 time is better than her 100 so she is improving as the distance goes up.

simpson by 10-20 seconds. Felix is gifted, but like many sprinters, will never be able to turn left a third time.

These questions comparing sprinters to distance runners are stupid. Felix would be way ahead at first and then would tighten up and get passed at some point. Speculating when that point would be is pointless. It would not be an exciting race to watch so why talk about it?

killing time wrote:

Felix would be way ahead at first and then would tighten up and get passed at some point. Speculating when that point would be is pointless. It would not be an exciting race to watch so why talk about it?

You're not very bright, that is for sure. Why on earth would Allyson be "way ahead" at first? Why would she lead? Please try to think for once.

Yes, we can't blame 100/200 stars from tackling the 800 because they would likely be much worse at the 800 than those other events, which is what why we think Felix would also not be stellar at 800.

Yes, thanks for making that point.

a) the 10k and marathon have much more in common than the 400 and 800. The 10k is about 95% aerobic and the marathon virtually completely aerobic. The 400 has fairly small aerobic component to it, while the 800 has a much larger aerobic component. And that is why there have been many more distance runners who have been near the top of the world at both 10k and marathon than there have been sprinters who have been world class at the 400 and 800, and this is ESPECIALLY true of 400 runners who are outstanding 100/200 runners like Felix.

B) interestingly, Renato himself has made this same basic point. He pointed out that there are MANY more runners from the all time top 20 or 30 or 50 800m list who are also on the 1500 all time list than who are also on the 400 list. IN short, extremely good milers are much more like to excel at 800 than extremely good 400 runners. This doesn't mean that a 400/800 star runner can never occur, but it does mean that a 100/200/400 superstar like Felix also becoming a near or actual national champ in the 800 is EXTREMELY unlikely.

National champ in the 100, 4x WORLD champ in the 200. Are you on crack?

This ain't a beauty contest.

Jesse is a friend wrote:

You're not very bright

A classic jesse post. Your intellect astounds me.

splits wrote:The fact that you think most women 800m champions can only muster a 53-54 shows you kow nothing of running

it's correct theoretically

if you assume a hugely insignificant potential 1500 possible of say

3'50 - 3'55

various 400s with above :

55.00 ->1'56.64 - 1'58.04

54.00 ->1'55.69 - 1'57.09

53.00 ->1'54.74 - 1'56.14

400m is good reservoir for 800 ??!

Sir Lance-alot wrote:Juantorena did nothing comparable in the 100/200 to that.

true

however, any low-44 guy can expect low-20 off 400 training alone, if they just run a few

( lashawn does have a 19.80 with a 3.2 & legit 19.98 with 1.4 )

he couda challenged for a medal in '76 for 200 which was won in a pathetic 20.23

Sir Lance-alot: I have discovered that you are not a very intelligent individual. Of course, this is not something which requires much analytical ability to ascertain. Just because Allyson Felix would destroy you in a sprint does NOT mean she is blazing fast. She is a wonderful athlete because of her speed endurance. She is not capable of a blazing 100 meters. This is why she does much better in the 200 and also so well at 400 meters. Allyson Felix is the most talented 800 meter female runner in the U.S. today, and you're not bright enough to understand it. Nobody is surprised. Lydiard would have understood it and would have been able to train her to run 1:54 within two years, and if Lydiard could do it, I obviously could, too.