Cat 1 or D1 - which is harder?

Why on earth would you choose to compare fencing or rowing to running when we are talking about cycling?

Do you think it's easier to win an olympic medal in cycling than in running?

Morocco Mole wrote:

I'm saying that mediocre 5K runners represent the same level of overall achievement that Cat 1 cyclists represent, but in different sports. Actually, I think that the 5k runners might be more accomplished.

Cat. 1 cyclists are generally just a step below being pro. How many 14:30 guys are a step below being pro...I would say none.

Cat. 1 in most cases is probably more akin to a 13:50-14:05 5k runner in terms of level of achievement, IMHO.

RunningInCircle wrote:

Are Cat 1's from California/Colorado be better than other not so cycling abundant states? Or, would it about the same since most of American racing is criterium where it doesn't matter how well you can climb mountains.

Since most racing are crits here in the US, would 400m or 800m runners transfer best to being cyclists in the US? I feel like best 5k or 10k runners would be great at pushing the pace, but if you're a great 400m runner, you can just draft all the way to the end of the race and win the sprint. If there's a breakaway, just have your team do the work to pull back the breakaway.

There can be some disparity from region to region partly since upgrades are based on how well you do against others in that category. There also is some self-selection in that folks who want to rise to the higher levels may relocate to train better.

How did you measure this 1700W? What device? I have done lab and field testing and seen plenty of powermeter files and even 5 sec at 1700W is pretty remarkable for a world class track sprinter (Marty Nothstein, for instance). I am skeptical of a 60 year old being able to do this. If you can do that then I assume you are winning masters world titles in the kilo or even the match sprint.[/quote]

Powertap. from saris. 1700 is not remarkable. You have been testing the wrong guys.

Go look at Hoy's numbers, and theo boss. And I lied, I am ony 58, but I always round it up.

And Marty Nothstein was way above the numebrs you quote.

One thinkg I have learned along the way. A 60 + year old top cyuclist is usually a heck of a lot closer to their old best, than a 60 yr old runner. Especially a sprinter.

There are guys I ride with who are still at cat 1.

RunningInCircle wrote:

Are Cat 1's from California/Colorado be better than other not so cycling abundant states? Or, would it about the same since most of American racing is criterium where it doesn't matter how well you can climb mountains.

Since most racing are crits here in the US, would 400m or 800m runners transfer best to being cyclists in the US? I feel like best 5k or 10k runners would be great at pushing the pace, but if you're a great 400m runner, you can just draft all the way to the end of the race and win the sprint. If there's a breakaway, just have your team do the work to pull back the breakaway.

There's more depth in CA, so it's a bit harder to upgrade. But the same strong guys are there in the P12 ranks in every state -- just fewer of them in the less populated / less cycling oriented states.

The crit scenes are stronger in some places than others. For instance, northern california and colorado have a lot of climbing races, but crits are easier to put on (and they're shorter) so there are more of those overall -- you can easily do two in a weekend.

I'd say the 5k/10k runners are probably terrible at pushing the pace, they would make good climbers though. I'd guess that the 400m-800m guys are the ones who can really push the pace, maybe 200m as well -- remember that most of the time they're only taking pulls for a handful of seconds at a time.

I tested Marty on an indoor erg. Now some of this is protocol dependent and he popped around 1850 W (5 sec avg). 1 sec readings should not be counted.Get on it and win some master;s world titles on the track then. You are a lock. (For the record BMX guys produce big numbers are often much smaller than their track counterparts.

bobonuts wrote:

How did you measure this 1700W? What device? I have done lab and field testing and seen plenty of powermeter files and even 5 sec at 1700W is pretty remarkable for a world class track sprinter (Marty Nothstein, for instance). I am skeptical of a 60 year old being able to do this. If you can do that then I assume you are winning masters world titles in the kilo or even the match sprint.

Powertap. from saris. 1700 is not remarkable. You have been testing the wrong guys.

Go look at Hoy's numbers, and theo boss. And I lied, I am ony 58, but I always round it up.

And Marty Nothstein was way above the numebrs you quote.

One thinkg I have learned along the way. A 60 + year old top cyuclist is usually a heck of a lot closer to their old best, than a 60 yr old runner. Especially a sprinter.

There are guys I ride with who are still at cat 1.[/quote]

Just saying: anyone who thinks that the typical D1 athlete is a 14:30 guy obviously didn't run in D1. Most schools do not even have a single 14:30 guy. Even on pretty good teams, there are a lot of guys that will never crack 14:30.

I'm not much of a runner anymore. I'm a Cat1 cyclist and former DIV 1 XC skier. From what I know about those two, and running, the best comparison I've seen is that a DIV 1 runner would be like a Cat 2. If you're talking about the guys WINNING or getting Top 5 at Div 1 events...that's probably equivalent to Cat 1.

Either way, there's more competition in cycling. All you have to do is look at the money involved. Money, after all, determines level of competition, and what makes this world tic.

Also, there really is no such thing as a mediocre cat 1. Like it's been previously said. To get the upgrade you have to get top 5's in Pro/1/2 events.

mediocre cat 1 wrote:

I'm not much of a runner anymore. I'm a Cat1 cyclist and former DIV 1 XC skier. From what I know about those two, and running, the best comparison I've seen is that a DIV 1 runner would be like a Cat 2. If you're talking about the guys WINNING or getting Top 5 at Div 1 events...that's probably equivalent to Cat 1.

Either way, there's more competition in cycling. All you have to do is look at the money involved. Money, after all, determines level of competition, and what makes this world tic.

Also, there really is no such thing as a mediocre cat 1. Like it's been previously said. To get the upgrade you have to get top 5's in Pro/1/2 events.

But you should also look at money as it relates to the high barriers to entry in cycling, which reduces competition drastically...

runnin' shoes aint cheap!

i really dont think you can argue that there's more competition in running...and in Europe those "barriers" don't exist, equipment etc. is given to talented athletes from a young age...i think that professional cycling even in the US offers at least a means of supporting yourself, unlike running (correct me if i'm wrong on that) which makes the pro and semi-pro (cat 1) circuit more stiffly contested.