PAUL TERGAT Vs. MICHAEL JOHNSON; WHAT'S YOUR VERDICT?

trackhead wrote:

I threw out that chart to show that a successful 400/800 runner is rare, while a successful 800m/1500m runner is much more likely to succeed; so a top 400m runner translating well to 800m is not necessarily a given.

As for the topic of this discussion -- it really depends on Johnson. Based on Tergat's 7:28 3000m, I'm sure he'd have a minimum of 1:49 speed, and probably more like 1:48. Johnsons was a speed endurance athlete -- it all dependswhat kind of energy system he is in after a 52s quarter -- mind you that's 9s slower than his 400m PR and much closer to Tergat's maimum 400m speed -- so I give it to Johnson.

Note that Coe while at university only won one national championship, at 400m!

ok - I'll go along with you on tergat, although the extrapolation gets more difficult as you got ot lower distances. How do arrive at an estimate for MJ's 800?

800m record? Soft? You must be joking. It hasn't changed by more than a second in twenty years. Hardly anyone runs sub-1:44, let alone sub-1:42. Juantorena was good enough at 400 to win it at the same Olympics where he won the 800, and he didn't even come close to what you suggest he could have done easily.

retarded wrote:

if you read his book, you would read that he used to do mile time trials. isnt that about 1k more than 600m?

I never read his book, but if that's what it says then I'll take it as true.

Agreed, I think the 800 record is the most amazing. It is anything but a soft record. How many people have ever gone sub 142? 3? And none of them did it consistiently. And back to the topic, I think Johnson would destroy Tergat, but in anythink much longer, Tergat wins.

The 1:41 has been rarely touched, but sometimes I think that back-to-back sub-50's should be feasible. At the same time though, whenever I see runners go out in 50., it seems like they're pressing or visably exerting by 500m.

If MJ trained for it (and probably slimmed down a tad) I think he would murder Teg over 800. If you took them each at their peak, I think Johnson would fall apart over the last 175 meters and Teg would slide by for the win.

The thing that I always found interesting was that while there are lots of 100/200 guys, lots of 800/1500 guys, and tons of 5k/10k runners, you rarely see 200/400 or 400/800 runners at the national or international level. The only ones I can think of in recent years are Jearl Miles Clark (4/8) MJ (2/4) and Joey Woody, but I think he was much more a 400h guy than a flat 400 runner. I guess from 400-800 is one of the biggest jumps in competitive running as you need about 20 second speed for the former and to be able to come through in 51 in the latter.

That being said, I think MJ could have shattered the 800 record if he trained for it. I know he ran a few 100m races in preparation for Atlanta, has he ever run a post-collegiate 800 race?

A few years ago I watched some top class British 400m runners run an 800m in a BMC meeting. From memory, I think John Ridgeon and Mark Richardson were among those running. They ran decent but not spectacular times. Something like 1-55 or 56 for one of them and about 2 minutes for the other guy. Considering these guys could run around 45 seconds for the 400m, you could say that there is some sort of endurance component for the 800m which was lacking in this case.

I know that 800m is essentially a long sprint but I think we are forgetting how fast a guy like Tergat probably is. His last 200m in Sydney was sensational. I think that he could run at the slowest 49 seconds for 400m, more likely one or two seconds faster. That's why the long distance records have fallen so much in the last 10 years. It probably started with Aouita, he could run 1-43 and 27-20 without too much problem. Then you got a lot more guys who just had great basic speed running the distances. Geb has won a 1500m indoor title and he's a 10k guy for goodness sake !

Tergat to win comfortably. Johnson to run about 1-55.

Whoever is coached by World Class Coach #1 is the winner.

And so it goes... I can see the OLN special now...

For $10,000 Olympic Gold Medalist and World Record Holder Haile Gebresalassi has agreed to rabbit the race and bring Tergat and MJ through in 53 seconds.

At the 500 meter Mark Geb pulls to an outside lane as agreed and MJ makes a huge charge opening up a 10 meter lead on Tergat.

200 to go, Tergat begins to respond and close the gap.

150 to go, Johnson, realizing he was either going to lose or not set a world record, grabs his hammy and drops to the track.

100 to go, Tergat drops the anchor, but feels confident as he has passed MJ.

Out of nowhere, Geb, having decided "f*** the 10G's" comes up and bich slaps Tergat at the tape.

No prize money is awarded as none of the contractual obligations are met.

tergat wins in 148

johnson loses in 151

MJ wins this easily, Tergat can't go out in 48 as someone said. That's what Kipketer might be able to go out in, no way Tergat could do it. The 800 record sure isn't soft either - it's almost as good as Powell's LJ and MJ's 19.32. I agree with the other poster - MJ vs Kipketer in their primes over 600 would've been a sweet race.

MJ sitting on Tergat until 200 to go - he would fly by him like Tergat was standing still.

Check this

Tergats PR's in 1500M (3:42.3) Mile (3:58.4) 2000M (4:57.4) and 3000M (7:28.7) were all set in THE SAME RACE!

Lets not forget that Mottram has apparently turned out a 1:45 800m in training, now assuming that Tergat is faster or at least as equally fast as Mottram I would suspect that he could also run in the region of that sort of time.

I would also expect MJ to run around 1:45 as well. It would be one hell of a race but I would favour MJ on his raw speed and strength which always counts at the end of the 800m

the430miler wrote:

tergat wins in 148

johnson loses in 151

I agree that Tergat would destroy MJ, but I think you are giving too much credit to MJ.

People think that since MJ has 43 second 400 meter speed that all he needs to do is slow down a whopping 7 or 8 seconds per lap and he can comfortably cruise to a 1:40-1:42. After all, a 50-51 second 400 will feel easy for someone that fast, right? Applying that same logic, you could pretty much rationalize him running a 12:40 5000 or a 2:05 marathon, which most sane people know will never happen. Beyond 600 meters is the point where the physiological requirements to run well drastically change and MJ doesn't have them.

to the max wrote:

When Johnson was in his best shape he would kill Tergat in the 800. It wouldn't even be close. Johnson's rumored to have run 1:47 in practice. There's no way the 400m world record holder loses to a 10k guy.

Now MJ and El Guerrouj over 1k would be a much more interesting race.

Must be some good drugs where you live. El Guerrouj would win this by a good 100-150 meters. Think before you post.

The El G vs MJ in a 1K is beyond ridiculous. You wouldn't even need to put EL G in there....pretty much any 4:00 miler could whip MJ at 1K.

Alright, so MJ could run 43.18 for the 400m at this best then obviously 50 would be a jog, right? So we know that 1:40-1:41 is fair game. Well, if he can go through 800m in 1:40 all out then 1:50 would be a jog too, correct? So why couldn't he just jog a 1:50 and come back again with a 1:50 for a 3:40 mile? Seems reasonable.

So now we know MJ was capable of running 3:40. 3:56 is a LOT slower than 3:40 right? So if MJ could run 3:56 (which would be 4 seconds per lap slower than his 800m PR, which works for a lot of people) for 3.1 miles then he'd be able to run in the 12:20 range. If he can run under 4 minutes for 3 miles, why not 4:40 for 26.2 miles? Tergat's 5K pr is much slower than what MJ could have run so why not?

It's a shame. The first sub-two hour marathoner wasted his time on the 200m and 400m.

There is a reason why MJ never raced an 800. It's also the same reason why he would race the 100....and the same reason why Webb would race the 5000/10000 but not the 400.

Top level runners do not want to embarass themselves on the world stage. They race what they're good at and occasionally race outside their comfort zone (think Bekele in a mile). MJ in a top level 800 would be a total embarassment.

Wariner is no exception. He has already stated in an interview that he will never race the 800, but he often races the 200. A lot of people here just don't grasp how different the 800 is from the 400.