In practical terms, what does USATF's threat to not support the meet mean anyway? Is USATF going to stage its own meet at the Garden? No. Are they going to start an alternative meet somewhere that same weekend? No. Do the Armory people have any respect for USATF? No. Should they? No.
A little bit off topic. But get rid of appearance fees for the top athletes. Pay their travel, room and board for events. And let them compete for the prize money. Which would be much bigger if you added the appearance fee money to them. The compelling thing about running especially long distance running is in the struggle between competitors. And the courage that can be diplayed within that struggle. I think some athletes, especially elite Americans. Take the "better safe than sorry" approach. Better for my appearance fees to come in a strong 4th or maybe nab 3rd than to take the risks neccessary to win the event. And potentially come in 8th. If the sport wants to be appealing to the general public they need to have compelling competition. Joe six-pack doesnt care you ran a PR.
Rayna wrote:
A little bit off topic. But get rid of appearance fees for the top athletes. Pay their travel, room and board for events. And let them compete for the prize money. Which would be much bigger if you added the appearance fee money to them. The compelling thing about running especially long distance running is in the struggle between competitors. And the courage that can be diplayed within that struggle. I think some athletes, especially elite Americans. Take the "better safe than sorry" approach. Better for my appearance fees to come in a strong 4th or maybe nab 3rd than to take the risks neccessary to win the event. And potentially come in 8th. If the sport wants to be appealing to the general public they need to have compelling competition. Joe six-pack doesnt care you ran a PR.
Thanks for the offer, but I'll go to Glasgow, since they're offering me £20,000 just to show up.
If you want to get the best to come and compete and risk losing, you have to pay them. Imagine what Bolt has on the line the next time he races Tyson Gay. Every meet in the world would love to have that matchup. And if anybody gets it before the World Championships, they'll have to pay a fortune to get them there because so much is on the line with that one race. It's the same on a smaller scale for all other top competitors.
How long was it going to last with relays like The New York City Dept of Sanitation vs. The Cash Register Girls of Macy's and Mary Manning Nursing Home vs. The Hebrew Home fo the Aged ?
Wejo and "Friend of LRC",The 'Kid from Holy Cross' who ran 4:00 at Boston Garden was Arthur Dulong, who had a great HS career (with some wonderful relay performances at Penn), and is probably still the best runner to ever come out of Holy Cross. He holds the record for fastest mile ever run in the Boston Garden, a record never to be broken, since they tore down the Garden and put up the new thing in the mid 90s.Art went on to be a Hall of Fame coach at Lexington HS in Massachusetts, and then a Principal at Concord-Carlisle HS before happily retiring...Just FYI. History and tradition are wonderful things. But change isn't bad. Millrose will be better off at Armory.
rojo wrote:
I just checked my email and received the following great email I thought I'd share with everyone:
friend of LRC wrote:This is the first time that I've emailed you regarding a track story - but I was out after work today and was emailed a story from the New York Times right before I left the bar that truly upset me. This may be old news to everyone, but I am furious that the Millrose Games are likely leaving Madison Square Garden for the Armory. To be sure, the Armory is an absolutely amazing facility, but the Millrose Games has never been about running a fast time - it has always been about the competition and the atmosphere. In my mind, indoor track has always been the transition season between cross country and outdoor track. The best thing about indoor [especially when you are from the northeast] as a fan, is being able to sit inside and watch a full meet, and as a competitor, is to be able to get into race shape before the snow melts. Millrose was really the last in a history of meets held at major arenas in the US (for example, the old boston garden indoor meets that my grandfather used to tell me about, and, by the way, where I think a kid from Holy Cross ran like a 4:00 mile in the 70s). Millrose was a unique experience where you got to run in a track meet that felt like a NBA game. I figured I'd write to suggest a "Save Millrose" section on the website.
On a side note, keep up the good work on the website. When I hit the office every day, first thing I do after logging into my computer is signing on to letsrun.
Count me in as another "thumbs down" on moving the Millrose to the Armory.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Armory and hats off to Dr Sander et al for reviving it and for all that has been done for high school, open and masters track and field there...but moving Millrose there is not respectful of this venerable meet's place in history.
"We just want to breathe some fresh air into this"...fine, then use that energy to breathe life into the meet at the Garden and simultaneously continue to build upon all that is righteous at the Armory.
That's my five cents (inflation)
MF
If they got rid of the filler races then I'd buy a ticket. Dump the NFL has beens, masters, high school, and local college races.
Fillers wrote:
high school, and local college races.
The ones that most ticket buyers are there to see?
I suspect that the yea's and nay's fall along the lines of those who buy tickets to meets and those who read about meets.
If you are more used to reading results the times become more important than place.
Ticket buyers judge the meet by the experience they had at the event and how hardfought each medal was.
Regular meet attenders dislike moving to 168th Street, the longer ago their first Millrose was the stronger the dislike
-- -If you bought a Millrose ticket in the last few years you never saw the type Millrose Games that us older Back In The Day Millrose fans did (my first 6 or so were in The 50th Street MSG).
The old board track- a sound you will always remember-the 440y-600ys run pace seemed to set a deep harmonic undertone to the hoofbeat sound of pounding feet. For the 1000y the boards changed tone and tempo as various runners make their break on a sprint to the finish you could hear the race as well as see it.
Truth be told--- this once most vocal fan of Millrose-- stopped going two years ago when timing how long it took them to put the track together and wondering if the clerk who worked the 4x800 would miscount for the third year in a row started taking up more of my interest than who was running.
The new trend to hip-hop trashcan metal music with a shrill announcer yelling incomprehensible garble over it during the meet set me yearning for a little song from Carl...at that moment I realized how far behind me the tipping point was-- the last few years I'd been going purely out of a sense of duty.
Duty done dues paid I've seen my last Millrose
I would too if I were you Fletcher.
Hmm, If the meet could survive at the Garden I bet they would continue to have it there. As far as I can tell they were giving tickets away and could not get a decent sized crowd. The Armory track is fast and will produce great races with great times. Spectator space is limited but the Armory will be rocking. I actually raced at Millrose it wasn't the venue that got me excited it it was the quality(prestige) of the race/event that made it meaningful.
I'm a NYC native and I don't know where I sit on this issue.
Of course, I would love to have an awesome kick-ass meet at the Garden every year, and I'm somehow disappointed that the world's best rarely show up. The best races are often the highschool races (the 4x4s especially!).
On the one hand, MSG was never full, and I always wondered how they made money (advertising on TV?). The nosebleed seats for the high school kids were practically free (or were they completely free?) and that was the only crowded section.
On the other hand, I think the Armory has too few seats -- I doubt the high school kids alone will fit in there, so you're going to have to exclude some people.
In the end, I think having it in MSG elevated it to a special level.
A failure of technology is partly to blame. Why is the Mondo (or whatever it is) track at the Garden much slower than the board one it replaced?
I had the great opportunity of running in the high school 4x8. The year I participated, our 4x8 was immediately followed by the Wanamaker mile. I remember walking around the warm-up area and warming up next to Montramm and Lagat. I remember walking out onto the track and looking up to the dark stands all around us with the bright lights on us. I am now running in college but I still have to say that running at MSG was one of the greatest experiences of my life. The Millrose Games is a great meet, but it does not seem like it would be nearly as special now that it has left the Garden.
Additionally the press release stated that the meet is now an all day meet on Saturday with high school and college events in the morning. This is very disappointing because something that I felt made the Milrose games so special for younger runners, who will hopefully support the sport in future, was running in the middle of a professional meet. Now it seems like Milrose Games will become a meet like the New Balance Collegiate meet with high schoolers in the morning and then a professional meet at night.
When I heard hints that the Milrose Games were moving to the Armory it was shocking. When I heard that the Games officially moved it was very saddening. I just consider myself lucky enough to have experienced the Milrose Games at the garden and feel bad for all the future athletes who will never be able to experience that.
wineturtle wrote:
The new trend to hip-hop trashcan metal music with a shrill announcer yelling incomprehensible garble over it during the meet
That is what the Armory is famous for loud music and screaming accouncers, it will be just another HS meet with a few elite event as all their meets. The Armory wanted the Millrose to die and have been talking about moving it to 168th street for years. They did no promotions last year to even attempt to sell tickets they wanted a low attendence hoping it would make the blow a bit lower.
Good for USATF not backing the meet, let's see the Armory pay the millions that the meet cost to produce, if they actually run it like the "elite" meet it is.
wineturtle wrote:
-- -If you bought a Millrose ticket in the last few years you never saw the type Millrose Games that us older Back In The Day Millrose fans did (my first 6 or so were in The 50th Street MSG).
The old board track- a sound you will always remember-the 440y-600ys run pace seemed to set a deep harmonic undertone to the hoofbeat sound of pounding feet. For the 1000y the boards changed tone and tempo as various runners make their break on a sprint to the finish you could hear the race as well as see it.
Duty done dues paid I've seen my last Millrose
Wineturtle:
Your poetic words conjure up fond memories of sitting track side, waiting our turn to initially run in the early 4x440 relay and then later running in the final 4x440 relay right around 11 pm. In between every race, every jump was spectacular, appreciated by those who saw and those who competed. Today's "time trial" extravaganza's don't hold a candle to the "Golden Age" of indoor track and field. I am happy I was able to see and compete near the end of that period and sad that today, our athletes compete in isolation.
Fred and Howard Schmertz and the others who put on that yearly event were saints before their time. Thanks for the memories....
Brings back mems of the good old days of arena track. East coast was always so gentle and sportsmanlike. Frisco was tame. The L.A. kids run all year round and at Sunkist would slam and shove you off the track like the L.A. Thunderbirds rollerderby club ;-) Sunkist was the hell arena meet back in olden days.
A lot of American elites race outdoors in Australia and New Zealand in our winter, go to track meets indoors in Europe, or try for fast times in Boston. They don't even think about Millrose.
Fletcher Christian wrote:
I would expect that you'll never see the Millrose Games on TV again.
Oh please, 99% of the rest of the country could care less where our best athletes run as long as we get to watch them.
Hoping that a top meet is not on TV is a problem. When ESPN shows more poker and competative eating then they do track and field....we shouldnt care where a meet is held at.
indoors isn't real track and field