Gianni Ghidini 800/1500m training

I certainly believe in tempo runs for 800 runners, and that 6-8 k is a good distance. For the younger kids that I coach I like as short as 3-4 k. My reasoning is that I like the speed and rhythm that they can run at for 3-4 k but they can't hold for 8k.

I also think that 1k repeats can be done as an alternative. These are really Daniel's cruise intervals.

In the past couple of years I had access to a 700m circuit beside the track. We often did 4-5 x700m @tempo pace with 60 sec rest and then went to the track for the main part of the workout. ThiS seemed to work very well, and I will continue to do it.

Finally, I do think 400-800 guys need to do some tempo running.3k or the 1k cruise intervals may be sufficient, but they need something.

AC,

So these continious tempo runs will be slightly above threshold pace right? Are u running them progressively or at even pace?

And also I wonder what is your philosofy when it comes to improvement of an 800m runner?

I am now thinking about a senior who has already several years of training, and who have medium milage and doing more 400/800m training, with no intention to increase milage much

-Would it be best to increase the volume of the training from year to year? f.ex 6x1000m instead of 5x1000m or 6x600m instead of 5x600m, of course at the same pace as before.

- Decrease the rest beetween intervals?

-keep the same volume of everything just trying to run faster on all quality training?

But also with low milage guys there might be a limit to how many intervals at high speed u can to before it will get counterproductive? maybe some increase in total milage or milage/length of tempo runs will be more helpful?

I feel i know quite much about which type of session that are needed for 800m training, but I lack knowledge on how to periodize it and improve in the long term.

The tempos are even paced.

Your questions now call for more personal analysis.This kind of a discussion is great for general theories with some specific advice, but to give accurate advice one would need more information.

That being said, I return to an earlier point; 1:51 is 55.5 pace-no big deal. 1:48 is 54 pace-only 1.5 sec faster yet gives a great result. A typical hs championship race is run 54,58, so the kids are fast enough just not strong enough.

I would focus on the strength component for a 400/800 guy who is stuck. That would mean both adding another repeat and speeding them up.

Canova always says you must continue to extend the distance you can hold a speed, not worry about getting faster.

thanks I understand that my queations require more info and probably is specific for athletes individually.

"Canova always says you must continue to extend the distance you can hold a speed, not worry about getting faster."

Yes I have read this many times in his posts here on letsrun, but I am abit confused if I understand him correctly. Can u clearify maybe.

As I understand it it can be f.ex:

-increasing fast tempo from 20 min to 25 min at the same speed.

-after getting fitter running 5x400m evolves into 4x500m,

so total volume same but repetition length is increased.

-2x(500m-300m) evolves into 2x(550m-350m)

OR ALSO running more REPETITIONS at same speed?

10x200m at 30sec evolves into 12x200m at 30 sec

Is my understanding of your quote from Canova correct?

In my case I am abit confused on how I should train. I have trained for 800/1500 before and made a 1.58 pb. This was with quite much tempo runs and vo2 max intervals. pb 53.0 on 400m that season.

Then a few years later I trained for 400m, with the longest interval in training was only 300m. I ran 51.1 on 400m. didnt run 800m that season but my endurance was not that good, because of just speed endurance training and pure speed training.

so based on this info It might seem like I am more a 400/800m type beacuse of the 51.1 is better than 1.58?

I dont seem to respond so weel to long tempos and high milage. My endurance has always been the hardest for me to develop I feel, but now I want to try running 800m again. I think I will include some fast 20 min tempos in addition to my faster 800m and 1k intervals. Maybe twice every 3rd week.

Sounds good?

Sounds good! Yes, you have the same understanding as I do of Renato's comments.

I have actually coached lots of guys with your prs.

So here is my specific advice;

add in the 20-25 min tempos or 4-5 x1k@ 3:00-3:05 for endurance.

Run 1000-1200 @64 pace for specific endurance;

Run 3x600@ 1:30 with 3 min rest for specific speed, reducing to 2x600@ 1:26 with 5 min.

Of course, do some 200s,300s, 400s as you have likely always done.

Good luck. Post your results.

Thanks for the advices. I will add some tempo runs.

I think you overestimates my endurance :)

I did 4x1000m with 4,5,6 minutes recovery in 3.10-3.12-3.14-3.05 just recently

3x600m at 1.30 with just 3 min rec will also be very hard if not impossible at this moment.

I have the feeling now that I am in worse shape than expected ;)

what I do now:

m:5x800m @2.30 3 min rec.

t:30-50min easy

w:8x100m hill/flat 95% sprint, 5min rec

t:30-50min easy

f:2x(5x300m)1,2,3,4 rec, 5min set rec (48-47-46-45-44)*

s:30-50min easy

s:30easy+6x7 sec steep hill sprints

m:4x1000m 4,5,6 min rec 3.10-3.12-3.14-3.05*

t:30-50min easy

w:short speed endurance: 3x6x60m 1,3 min rec, 5 min set rec

t:30-50min easy

f:2x600=1’47”+2x600=1’44”+2x600=1’38” rest= 3’/6’=(6x600)*

s:30-50min easy

s:3x7 min tempo run, 1 min rest

Easy week. Not yet decided completely

m:30-50e

t:30e+6x7sek hill sprints

w:20 min tempo fast

t:30-50e

f:3x300x 3 sets (e.g.:48”+46”+44”) rest 2’+3’ and 5’*

s:30-50e

s:30e+6x7sek hill sprints

*sessions following the progression outlined in Gianni ghidinis document.

Feel free to comment. Do I lack endurance based on my times?

Yes, your schedule confirms my central point. Get stronger!

If you can get to run 1200 in 3:15 and 3x 600@ 1:30with 5 min rest you will see a breakthrough.Then running 28 sec for 200 will feel easier.

Good luck. Be patient.

did a tempo today, or actually not even a real tempo 3x7 minutes, 2 min recovery+1x5 minutes. Total 26 min.

It was terrible ;) 1 interval went fine until 4minutes, then struggled next minutes and on the 2 next including the 5min.

So seem like there is a big difference running only 1000m intervals during base with long rec, than running tempos.

Seems like the body adapt speficically to the distance you use.

This tell me that a well balanced training program should include fast continous tempo, at least once every 14 days or more. This because it seems like it is hard to improve the endurance long term without continious tempo, and that the tempo run is the base and the support for the other training 1000, 600m, 300m etc.. A well balanced program should include many components, if not all, and you should have no veaknesses in either speed or endurance if you want to run at your best.

I will try with 2 tempos every 3rd week in addition to my other training. Might be the part that was missing in my program I guess.

Try 1km reps @ 10km pace i.e.: 3-6 X 1km @ 10km pace with 1 min rest. The faster end of the LT spectrum is better for middle distanxe guys. Longer tempo efforts at slower than 10km pace are less effective. Also do some 5km race pace efforts, 800m-1000m. I am speaking from experience haveing done longer slower tempo and shorter faster tempo and the latter is a charm.

Ok thanks. What about max 6 km fast tempo (above threshold)?

It will take me around 24-26 minutes.

I just dont feel that 1k repeats at slow speed (well faster than 6m continously) are giving enogh stimuli as 6km tempo.

I might be wrong though.

In my opinion tempos are better, I feel that doing 1k repeats is way easier, while tempos are somewhat harder, but they also provide a lot of confidence in your training when you're able to accomplish them easily.

I think you can alternate the tempos and the 1kms. For a 400/800 guy the 1kms are probably easier mentally. The key is finding the right pace 3:15-20? 60-90 sec rest max.

Perhaps go as short as 4k for tempo for starters and add 2k as you get stronger.

Thanks AC,

I will do 4x1,5km instead of tempos.

Reasons:

more easy mentally

better rythm (on track)

More suitable at this time of season and for 400/800m runners.

Read about yuri borzakowski training and I saw that he finished all his endurance sessions with 3x150m at 800m pace approx.

Seems like a good idea actually. You want to train your body to mobilize power even when you are already tired. Seems logical. I will try that.

i dont know if this is out of subject but it is still 800m training. today i ran 8*300 with 3 min rest between every 300.

my average for the whole session was 50 seconds. what does anyone here i think i will run for 800 meters this Saturday. (i am 14 years old)

You are so young that all the talk about base and tempo doesn't really apply. Just run and have fun and mix your tgraining up. That is a nice solid workout for a 14 yr old. If you were running smoothly and not dying, then you could probably run 2:18 off that.

Another time try 3x600@ 1:48 with 4 min rest.

Good luck

i have to mention that i ran a 2:15 800(1st relay leg split last Tuesday. i am hoping to run a 2:10 though.. what workout do i need for the sub 2:10 indicator

try 3x600@1:39 with 4-5 min rest. Later in the season try two sets 600+ 200 with only 60-75 sec rest befre the 200. and 6-7 min between sets

AC, I like your suggestions for 800m specifc endurance sessions. Like 3x600m

Can you give me some examples of other important sessions that you do during the competition period or just before?

Here is what I would do:

8x150m, walk back fast rec. 90% (speed endurance)

3x600m fast. long rec

4x400m 5 min rec

3x1000m fast with long rec.

2x(500-300)short rec after 500m, longer rec beetween sets. (improving the ability to kick or hold the pace at the end of the race I believe)