oldoldrunner wrote:
2. Could Ryun have run those time by himself( in his 3:58 in HS his team mate did some rabbit duties for the first 2 laps).
Ryun led from start to finish.
oldoldrunner wrote:
2. Could Ryun have run those time by himself( in his 3:58 in HS his team mate did some rabbit duties for the first 2 laps).
Ryun led from start to finish.
yes i went there wrote:
a win is a win is a win is a win is a win is a win
And don't knock it.
What was Lagat's winning time in the Osaka 5km?
Was that shit? Was that boring?
...? No. Where do you see a comparison to Snell, Keino, et al? Take off your agenda glasses. I was saying that he led the entire race against a strong field that will likely be elite professionals soon. That's it.
jjjjjjjj wrote:
according to his wikipedia page, byers was 2nd at the aau (senior) nationals. he had college bests of 3:37.5 and 4:00.
You gots 'ta be kidding?
The winner of the AAU was a New Zealander and 1972 Olympic Bronze medalist named Rod Dixon. Dixon was #3 ranked in the world at 1500m in 72 and 73, and fresh off a 3:33 at the Commonwealth Games in February. It didn't bother the Ohio State freshman, as Byers took it to Dixon from 700meters on with Dixon getting the win in 3:37.5 to 3:37.9. Byers getting the National Championship.
Byers also won the Junior Nationals in both the 1500 and 800.
Byers ran BOTH the USA Junior and Senior dual meet tours and improved his best 1500 to 3:37.5, putting him #2, #3, and #8 on the all-time US Junior list 37 years later.
3:36.1 Jim Ryun (Kansas) 07/17/66
3:37.5 Tom Byers (Ohio St) 07/24/74
3:37.9 ——Byers 06/22/74
3:38.26 Alan Webb (Virginia HS) 05/27/01
3:38.50 ——Webb 06/23/01
3:39.00 German Fernandez (Oklahoma St) 06/13/09
3:39.0 ——Ryun (Kansas HS) 06/28/64
3:39.3 ——Ryun 06/04/66
3:39.8 ——Byers 06/28/74
3:40.49 John Trautmann (Georgetown) 05/30/87
Hold On There Skippy wrote:
Ryun was better off crummy training, much better natural talent.
Are you kidding me? Jim Ryun trained like a man. Jim Ryun f***** TRAINED. In high school. German's high school training seems minimalistic in comparison to Ryun's. If you meant to say that Ryun was "overtrained", that's a load of bs. Only women can overtrain. Don't be a p****
The Waterboy wrote:
Who cares that he got the win? I can see why people would want to skip college to turn pro like Alan Webb. Who cares if you run mediocre times to win different college titles. Hell it makes sense Alan Webb runs 3:53 and then wants to get faster instead of winning little titles. He got FOURTH at the pre classic, just behind Lagat? Why settle for 4 years of running times he ran as a soph in high school just to win a few meets or NCAA titles?
The fact is is that German's 3:55 indoor SOLO mile is world class, and it would be foolish to want an indoor NCAA title and outdoor NCAA title in whatever 4:0X time instead of improving to 3:54
Because he needs to learn to race and win. That is different from just running fast, very different. Leo Manzano won lots of races in high school and during all 4 years of his NCAA career, and some of them were won in very slow times...but it taught him to win on the big stage when it counted.
German is being smart, deciding not to go the Lukezic route (sp?) and burn out early after getting frequently bested on the world stage.
Clearing the bs up wrote:
long dong silver wrote:That's the truth. The most talented american born runner ever. I'll defend that last sentence forever (or until someone better). Is figuring out who has the most talent a precise science? No, but still. His 3:55.02 indoors at age 18 years, 3 months, and 26 days is superior to Webb's 3:53.43 outdoors at age 18 years, 4 months and 14 days. He won an NCAA 1500m title as a true freshman leading the entire race! If he can stay healthy all summer, he should be able to do some pretty good stuff. And if he stays healthy all the way through NEXT summer, he will do some really really big stuff.
Jim Ryun ran 3:55 as an 18 year old in 1965 on a cinder track to break the american record, high school record, and defeat the olympic champion from the previous summer. Also ran 3:59 as a 17 year old after being knocked off the track. World record in the 880 (1:44.9) and mile (3:51.3) a year later at age 19. Still holds the american junior record at 800, 1500, and mile.
"Defend" it.
This is my defence on the statement that Ryun was more talented than Fernandez.
Time
Ryun: 3:55.3
Fernandez: 3:55.02
Age
Ryun: 18, 1 month, 28 days
Fernandez: 18 years, 3 months, 22 days
Track Quality
Ryun: Poor
Fernandez: Fine, but indoors
Pacers
Ryun: Not optimal, but somewhat (race is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ots91-yh_o)
Fernandez: Solo
Training
Ryun: Without going into too much detail, I think we can all agree that it was very hard. If somebody calls me out on this I can back it up.
Fernandez: More moderate. Not a ton but not nothing either. Again, if people would like me to back this up more I can.
World Record at the time
Ryun: 3:53.6
Fernandez: 3:43.13
Range
Ryun: That was his optimal event
Fernandez: Just as good at the 5k
Let's tally the score.
So,
Time: Tiny advantage fernandez
Age: Now it's even
Track quality: still even
Pacers: slight advantage Fernandez
Training: now there's an advantage to Fernandez that I'll call "small"
World Record at the time (in the runner's heads, this is a huge limiting factor): now it's even again.
Range: Slight advantage fernandez
There you have it. I was very fair. Am I a nerd because of this post? Yes. Was it kind of fun compiling that all? Yes. Cheers.
My take on it wrote:
German ran 1:09:45 at age 16,
Girls run faster than that.
CoachB wrote:
7 GERMAN FERNANDEZ RIVERBANK CA 30:26(Riverbank HS)
Girls run faster than that too.
make me laugh wrote:
My take on it wrote:German ran 1:09:45 at age 16,
Girls run faster than that.
CoachB wrote:
7 GERMAN FERNANDEZ RIVERBANK CA 30:26(Riverbank HS)
Girls run faster than that too.
not 16 year old girls after taking it out in 6:15. and girls dont run 3:55. so go away troll. I don't understand why people feel so much animosity towards him.
Clearly you didn't watch the race... he basically walked the last 150m, he went wire to wire and easily could have broke 4 if he had to. After he knew the race was in hand he jogged it in so he could rest up for the 3k (another race he probably could have won, he knew his teammate and himself would go 1-2).. In my opinion German is back, if he is as good as he was in 2009... it's questionable.
Another take on it wrote:You made some good points, but that isn't one of them. Jeff Nelson was a CA runner also, and German wasn't elbowed onto the infield during the homestretch the way that Jeff was when he ran 8:36 at the Pepsi Invitational.
I'm afraid that stating that someone is from the same state doesn't make a point in itself.
Nelson wasn't in the same situation as GF. He turned 18 his sr year of HS and was 18 when he set the 2mile record. GF turned 17 during his sr year, and was 17 when he broke his record. He was about the same age as Nelson when he went 7:47i.
gray area wrote:
not 16 year old girls after taking it out in 6:15. and girls dont run 3:55. so go away troll. I don't understand why people feel so much animosity towards him.
Why bring up the half marathon when girls have run faster than Fernandez?
Mrr82 wrote:
I'm afraid that stating that someone is from the same state doesn't make a point in itself.
No, it doesn't. On the other hand, it does make an effective counter-point after you specifically said that "...the only reason (Fernandez) wasn't a JR when he ran it was because CA is one of less than a handful of states with a cutoff that made him a sr." You implied that competing under CIF age restrictions put him at a disadvantage, but Jeff Nelson worked under the same rules of engagement. And as I mentioned earlier, if Nelson hadn't been elbowed onto the infield during his 8:36 run, he might still have the 2-mile record!
He also ran it with a bunch of pros. German ran it blowing the doors off of other great high school runners and NEGATIVE SPLITTING.
This article from 2 years ago may sum it up
How good is German Fernandez?
http://www.time-to-run.com/blogs/index.php/a/2009/01/26/how_good_german_fernandez
Another take on it wrote:You implied that competing under CIF age restrictions put him at a disadvantage, but Jeff Nelson worked under the same rules of engagement.
Afraid that's false. Nelson would have been in the same class no matter what state he was in because of the month he was born. There's only a few month range that would put someone at a disadvantage in Cali compared to other states, and GF fell within that range having a Nov. Bday.
"Ryun was better off crummy training, much better natural talent. I like German but he will never, ever run anything close to Webb in the 1500/mile, and maybe not even the 5k if Webb decides to pursue the event seriously."
You are poorly informed about Jim's training in high school and after. The workload his body could handle is legendary.
Please see the following discussion:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2922008&page=0
One runner that Timmons was blessed to stumble upon was the once-in-a-lifetime talent of Jim Ryun. He is one of the few runners to endure the overworking requirements of Timmons's coaching style (for a while), and the records that still stand are proof of Jim's talent and extreme training.
My main point: Please don't think Jim Ryun was racing to those times off of talent alone.
Whoa cares? Did Ryun win the indoor Big 12 mile ever in his career?
horatioalger wrote:
Whoa cares? Did Ryun win the indoor Big 12 mile ever in his career?
i lol'ed
7.5/10
oldoldrunner wrote:
I pick Ryun over Fernandez because
how about to do otherwise would be pretty idiotic despite the attempt at justifying even the consideration on this craphole of a mb.