This rightist populism makes me sick. Go read Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here. It's the irrational masses like Samuel Adams3 that give me the willies. I loathe such semi-educated cranks that get their provincial viewpoints reinforced on Fox News and then network with superficial slogans. Go ahead and call me elitist but I'm not going to vote Republican till they rid themselves of this strip-mall patronizing/fast food eating/backwards Tea Party rabble.
Aren't unions basically communism without the ideals?
SamAdams, keep your posts geared towards public unions. They are fighting the argument by bringing up private unions, wall street and military spending. Public unions are bankrupting municipalities. The municipalities have no money. They have to cut it from somewhere and they can't cut military spending or social security like some suggest.
You liberals had your time and what did we get.... socialism and huge deficits. The old republican guard also had their time and they were better but still added to the deficit and also failed.The new republican is a different breed. The old republican leadership will have to adjust to us or be voted out. The game has changed and Americans have taken back their country. No more free rides that have bankrupt our country.
Ick wrote:
This rightist populism makes me sick. Go read Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here. It's the irrational masses like Samuel Adams3 that give me the willies. I loathe such semi-educated cranks that get their provincial viewpoints reinforced on Fox News and then network with superficial slogans. Go ahead and call me elitist but I'm not going to vote Republican till they rid themselves of this strip-mall patronizing/fast food eating/backwards Tea Party rabble.
Absolutely, why should someone keep their job just because they are older, make more money, and are probably less efficient that the younger worker. Its all backwards thanks to unions.No wonder schools are failing.
adfdsafasd wrote:
ryan foreman wrote:Even if pro union people get their way, public employees are still going to suffer cutbacks in pay and/or benefits.
If unions get their way, teachers will lose their jobs, period. And it will mostly be the younger, cheaper teachers. Unions don't stand up for their employees, they stand up for their tenured ones.
Public unions have destroyed the economies of governments. We just don't have the money any more. The cash cow has no more milk to give.But private unions are ridiculous with their demands. Have you ever employed union workers and then employ nonunion workers. The unions are killing us.
obamaman wrote:
SamAdams, keep your posts geared towards public unions. They are fighting the argument by bringing up private unions, wall street and military spending. Public unions are bankrupting municipalities. The municipalities have no money. They have to cut it from somewhere and they can't cut military spending or social security like some suggest.
Please. These are the same people taking advantage of you and have you voting against your own interest in the same way they have since end of Reconstruction. The message is practically identical, only with less words so that you better understand it. Look over your posts. You have said nothing of real content... just some thin bluster about 'free rides' and 'fat cats'. Get real. Power relations are more complex than an election.
Go back to your Playstation.
[quote]SamuelAdams3 wrote:
You liberals had your time and what did we get.... socialism and huge deficits. The old republican guard also had their time and they were better but still added to the deficit and also failed.
The new republican is a different breed. The old republican leadership will have to adjust to us or be voted out. The game has changed and Americans have taken back their country. No more free rides that have bankrupt our country.
Germany's doing fine. They have strong unions. Why would anyone want high pay, a strong middle class, and good pensions anyway?
BertNEarnie wrote:
Weakening the teachers unions is the first step in education reform. Everyone agrees that our current system is terrible but the second someone starts to really address the issue you get mass demonstations.
So why do the states without teachers unions tend to do worse educationally that states that do? Unions aren't getting in the way of educational reform in those states, but it doesn't seem to matter.
cleeeen wrote:
Unions: the people who brought you "the weekend."
You're right, let's give less power to working Americans, and more to corporations.
That will probably result in a high quality of life for most citizens.
BALANCE: with no unions, many (not all) employers and corporations will take advantage of workers/employees. But if unions are too strong, many (not all) will handcuff corporations and give too much power to the workers.
Also, some unions have developed a lot of political power in that they tend to vote as a monolithic group, and thus have a grasp on many politicians who are indebted to them. But they same can be said of corporate interest and politicians.
These kind of "for the votes/for the power" relationships are unhealthy.
What I do know is that are wonderful politicians have made promises that they can no longer honor...too much unfunded liability, its unsustainable...I see unions fighting for what they expected when they took employment, but a compromise needs to be reached...for sure, new government union workers must be hired under new, more fiscally responsible means. The old way has led to a portion of the local and national debts that are plaguing our land.
FYI, I am a California public education teacher. I frequently don't vote the way my local union and the California Teachers Association suggest.
Conundrum wrote:
The attack on the middle class continues. Amazing the number of people who have belief systems that aren't even in their own best financial interests.
Not that amazing really. After careful observation I have come to the conclusion that the number of people who act in their own best interests (interests of any kind) is very, VERY small.
While we are at it, let's get rid of those child labor laws too. Twelve years old can do a good days work on the family farm. Why not put them to work on the railroad or in the mines? They are healthy, don't get sick much and have plenty of energy!!!
Unions have their place. They should be legal. but employers have a right not to hire them or give in to their demands. Everyone not involved in the negotiations should remain neutral.
No unions.
Divide and conquer!
pissant wrote:
Aren't unions basically communism without the ideals?
Nope, they are basically democracy without the plutocracy. It really is silly to give people the right to speak out in their own self interest.
Unions have been weakened in this country over the last 20 years. Historically its been pretty well documented that workers get taken advantage without unions or at least the threat of unions developing.
There are some industry groups that have think tanks to get antiunion messages out there. It is good business for them to do this but it is not good for the middle class.
Really its pretty easy to influence large groups by pandering to their worse fears. Unions are not a problem in this country.
As far as teachers, their contracts vary a great deal from area to area. Teachers can be under a political microscope, can give grades the make them unpoular, they deal with some demanding parents who would have them spend an inordinate amount of time with their kids, and they also have to deal with local boards that may lack professionalism. They need some protection from unions.
They want to dump teachers unions and civil service unions only. They allo police, fire, military, judges, congress, Gov, Prez, to have unions, pensions, and Lexus health care insurance. This is a Tea Party and GOP scheme from the Ku Klux Klan.
Please read more than one article or do some research about education prior to posting in a public forum.
The lunacy in this thread is remarkable. No one can point ot research that will show that the unions of public workers is in any way responsible for states debt.
Anyone who thinks that tenure for public school teachers is not important is a lunatic, due process is a vital part of being a professional educator. Teachers can be fired if administrators follow due process and document the issues that would result in firing.
The posts about unions are lies and I think our media is somewhat responsible for the lack of knowledge that many of the posters on this thread show. When politicians like Governor Walker tell lies the media should call them on it immediately.
Everyone on this thread should know that the working conditions they have are better than they would otherwise be had there not been unions, this is regardless of whether you are a union member or not.
Threads like this do make me despair that maybe education in the US is not as strong as most studies show.
I hope the American public finally starts to understand the type of people behind many of these movements and how it will affect the middle class. The Walker run for governor was largely funded by the Kock brothers, this anitunion movement is pushed by the Americans for Prosperity ultra conservative group.
These people do not have middle class working needs in mind. They operate think tanks who's purpose to influence and manipulate large groups to actually hold ideas that are contrary to their best interests.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/us/22koch.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
It's amazing to me that we hear so many complaints about union employees earning $50,000 per year, but nobody ever bitches about corporate leaders making millions of dollars a year and getting gold plated pensions and multi-million dollar golden handshakes after just a few years.
If you want to save the economy, let's get corporate executive salaries and corporate income taxes more in line with reality. We are becoming a nation governed not by and for the people, but by and for the corporations.