Lets just end the heel strike debate right now.

gazoo wrote:

They don't heel strike. They do a mid foot. Your point proves you are wrong. Their foot is already in a backward motion on impact with the ground. You can't do that with a heel strike.

I'll say it again. YOUR CALCANEUS IS NOT MEANT TO ABSORB THE IMPACT OF RUNNING.

Tergat certainly touches with his heel first, even at full speed, just like Morceli.

Enough of the circular reasoning already.

What is all of this crazy talk about "calcaneus is not meant to absorb the impact of running" about? Heel-strikers do not absorb the impact of running with their heels.

RoffR wrote:

Malmo, just because Morecelli did it doesn't mean you can justify all the other athletes who have not done it and have become significantly more succesful. If I'm not mistaken, after his brilliant 1500m Wr he suffered injuries(possible caused by Heel Striking) and also he sort of Plateaud after the 1996 games. He was only as succesful as he was because he was a brilliantly talented runner and their was not a lot of competition.

I was right about the lunar ecplipse after all. The crzies have come out in full-force.

Get someone who actually knows about running to anaylyze their foot strike, Geb is clearly Forefoot, Tergat A little bit Midfoot and Forefoot. It's obvious they aren't putting full force on their heels though. Just because you strike on your heel(which if you look at it just from first glance it looks like Tergat is) but just because you strike on your heel doesn't mean your a Heel-Striker. It all depends where you put the most pressure, which is Tergat Mid-Forefoot and Geb- Upper Forefoot

Yup, Tergat is definately Forefoot. Thats where he pushes off from and puts the most centre pressure. Decided to watch the whole video because the beggining was a little confusing.

Yes, look at his feet @ 38, 41, 43. The foot stops moving forward just before it touches the ground and then begins moving back. It is also flexed ever so slightly downward and the lateral side of the foot is closer to the ground than the medial.

Looking at a foot gives you clues as to how your footstrike pattern should be.

The calcaneus is for resting while standing. It should not touch the ground when running.

RoffR wrote:

..And all of them but Meb are Midfoot-Forefoot striking...

Actually, Goumri is heel striking as well. So you have 2 of the 6 runners in that video heel striking. I'm not saying that's the way to go for everybody, and those guys might be midfoot striking in a 10k on the track, but it's certainly not the case that you have to midfoot or forefoot strike to run fast or be an elite runner. Goumri ran 2:05:30 on his heels, and Meb won NYC marathon on his heels.

RoffR wrote:

Yup, Tergat is definately Forefoot. Thats where he pushes off from and puts the most centre pressure. Decided to watch the whole video because the beggining was a little confusing.

And how would one push off from one's heel?

So far we have examples of Malmo, Morceli, Tergat, Goumri and Meb, all of them heel strikers, yet according to gazoo, they are "lazy, uninformed, stubborn people"

I'll take ""lazy, uninformed, stubborn people" over a raving maniac blogger any day, gazoo.

In general however you run, that is how you should run. Drastic changes to form, especially foot strike, leads to decreased efficiency and increased injury. Every study that has looked at this has shown this.

I am naturally a forefoot striker but it doesn't mean I get any fewer injuries than my friends who are heal strikers.

Malmo is a good runnr but not all that elite, and Heel Striking isn't going to effect your times hugely just enough to where it is somewhat ineffeicent to highly elite runners and also causes more injuries.

Morceli is a 1500m runner where mechanics matter less, Tergat is not a heel striker, Goumri does heel strike so you got me on that one, and Meb has been injured more times in his career than anyone can remember. He only won one major marathon and we all know about all the injuries he had.

So far you have one guy on me that you have prooved your facts with while everyone else has some kind of ineffciency or it doesn't really matter on some occasion. Also, we don't know how fast Goumri could be without heel striking. He is 34 years of age and has been running competitive marathons for quite some time now and he also has never won a major marathon.

So with those facts, no one on here has benefited/ really done anything great with a heel strike. Point proven.

10+/10

You get bonus points for starting a debate (which you knew you would) with the words "Let's end the debate..."

Cheers

RoffR wrote:

So far you have one guy on me that you have prooved your facts with while everyone else has some kind of ineffciency or it doesn't really matter on some occasion. Also, we don't know how fast Goumri could be without heel striking. He is 34 years of age and has been running competitive marathons for quite some time now and he also has never won a major marathon.

So with those facts, no one on here has benefited/ really done anything great with a heel strike. Point proven.

All of these facts? which ones?

to where it is somewhat ineffeicent to highly elite runners and also causes more injuries. WHERE'S YOUR PROOF?

Morceli is a 1500m runner where mechanics matter less, WHERE'S YOUR PROOF?

Tergat is not a heel striker, OPEN YOUR EYES MAN

and Meb has been injured more times in his career than anyone can remember REALLY? WHAT'S YOUR PROOF?

[ON MEB] He only won one major marathon and we all know about all the injuries he had.

[ON GOUMRI] He is 34 years of age and has been running competitive marathons for quite some time now and he also has never won a major marathon ARE YOU SAYING THAT HEEL STRIKING IS KEEPING MEB AND GOUMRI FROM WINNING MARATHONS?

RoffR, no one listens to you because they can't fathom your brilliance. They roll their eyes and back away from you because they are stunned at the endless nonsensical blather that flows from your mouth. You're crazy. I see people in the subway platform that make more sense than you do.

A Skeptic wrote:

How about this: if you haven't had any injury problems you probably shouldn't worry about your stride?

How about this: if you haven't had any injury problems that doesn't mean you won't if you're trying to run your very best and it doesn't mean that you couldn't also be more efficient and thus faster.

"Malmo is a good runnr but not all that elite"

Haha, since when did having (multiple) American records quit being elite? Wow..

And you spelled "runner" wrong.

This is pathetic. It doesn't matter how you strike and this thread doesn't do anything. RoffR stop responding to him you are not making a point and that other guy you also keep blabbing on about the subject so don't accuse people of the same thing that you are also doing.

Really?? wrote:

This is pathetic. It doesn't matter how you strike and this thread doesn't do anything. RoffR stop responding to him you are not making a point and that other guy you also keep blabbing on about the subject so don't accuse people of the same thing that you are also doing.

Yes he's Heel striking. Cool. He's a good runner. He strikes different then other people. Ok

Malmo just to clarify the point of my post was to essentially say that the footstrike is not as important so much as WHERE the foot lands in relation to your body. If you are overstriding AND heelstriking you are slowing yourself down every step. Think about it, it's simple physics. If you reach out in front and land way out in front there will be an opposite force pushing backward. You spend more time interacting with the ground and wasting energy.

In your case, you are definitely not overstriding, so by no means are you running with the "emergency brakes on". You are landing directly underneath your center of mass and have a good turnover rate. The reason you are heelstriking is because you are dorsiflexing your foot, which is why the heel lands first. This is most likely due to habit, but considering pretty much the rest of your form is perfect I don't think it would make much of a difference in performance if you switched to a different footstrike. Pre ran very similar, perfect mechanics except for dorsiflexion which led to heelstriking.

For me, I heel strike until I go faster than 6:15 pace. A lot of it relates to the speed you are running and the fact that footstrike is individual, as malmo said. The problem with telling people to strike with the forefoot is that they think that is the "only" aspect of good form and then they try it and blow out their achilles. Its really the overstriding that is the problem, once you fix that the footstrike is irrelevant.

The bottom line is form MATTERS. It helped me avoid injury and achieve an entirely new level in the sport. All other things being equal, the guy with more efficient form has an advantage.

RoffR wrote:

Get someone who actually knows about running to anaylyze their foot strike, Geb is clearly Forefoot, Tergat A little bit Midfoot and Forefoot. It's obvious they aren't putting full force on their heels though. Just because you strike on your heel(which if you look at it just from first glance it looks like Tergat is) but just because you strike on your heel doesn't mean your a Heel-Striker. It all depends where you put the most pressure, which is Tergat Mid-Forefoot and Geb- Upper Forefoot

I like reading these threads for the debate but I can't say I'm super concerned with the outcome. There are good points to be made from several different points of view (and it's certainly more than just a two sided debate). But the fact that you said "just because you strike on your heel doesn't mean your a Heel-Striker" is really fantastic. So when your heel touches the ground first you're not a heel striker? Noted. Honorary donkey prize goes to whomever claimed heel striking in the 1500 doesn't matter because the race is so short. Right...