HS Coaches Rule- expelling an athlete

Vater wrote:

We had no formal policy and people sometimes missed practice. But we would still run or work out on our own, because we really cared. If you need to make this kind of harsh policy, you're doing something wrong.

The primary reasons that some of the "harsh policies" are made are due to a very few (sometimes one) of the kids/families who think that they don't have to abide by ANY kind of rules. Or try and circumvent the smallish easy to follow guidelines that are the basis for being on a team.

Which is why, when I became a coach, I had a fairly small but easy list of things to abide by; with a sentence at the bottom that basically said that it was up to my discretion and the individual situation to determine if additional discipline was necesssary; including, but not limited to the suspension of an athlete.

My wording got approved by the school district; and I only had a few kids that I had to kick off the team my first season (two for drinking; one for grades). I was 22 years old when I started coaching and never had a problem after that first year of setting standards and expectations.

I wonder if the "Throw 'em off the team" side can hear their own voices.

Do you have any idea how smug and self-important you sound? "HS XC is a privilege"? "I wont compromise my principals!" Come on. Its High School sports guys. You are not splitting the atom or negotiating armistice with North Korea. Your principle are all just happy thoughts in your own head. Step back from this for a second and listen to how you sound. IT is RUNNING. Thats all. Not a life lesson. Its just a sport. (that to be good at you have to WANT to be good at).

PDong made a good point. "Coaches are stewards of the program. They are not the center of it, nor are they even inside of it." So many of you sound as though this is your Company that you started and you are dealing with employees. They are just HS kids and you are not Donald Trump ("you're fiuhd"). PLEASE try to see the big picture hear. You the Coach are really not that important.

Bill the Pill wrote:

say what polar bear wrote:

It makes a lot more sense to punish someone in that is in high school sports for poor academics than when they are trying to succeed or go farther in academics.

huh?

Hey man, not cool. Find your own lame monicker, this one's taken. But I do agree-- polar bear's clarification wasn't really all that clear to me either..

Yes it is a life lesson. All sports are life lessons. Especially school based sports.

Principals are principals in little things and big things, if you had some you'd know that. Its a way you live your life, not just when people are looking, but more importantly, when they are not.

The coach is more important to the team than any of the kids individually are. He/She is there to run the program in a way that reflects well on the school. Letting kids do whatever they want doesn't do that. He/she is responsible for every member of the team, preparing them to race, their behavior and saftey at practice and at meets, but the kids are just responsible for themselves. There is no comparison to levels of importance.

I agree, lets try and see the big picture here. Yet you sound like you a spoiled kid who just wants things centered around himself and to be able to do what you want when you want. World doesn't work that way.

Clearly those who are advocating "throwing kids off the team" have probably been down the path where there is so much disorder that there really isn't any other choice; or they've stepped into a situation which requires control. I doubt (for the measley amount of money coaching gets) that most coaches are in it for the power trip.

When I began coaching I was cautioned by a very good and well respected coach (mentor) to not make too many rules, or you'd have to start abiding by them...too much black and white. Gray areas actually help you individualize the issue and get help where necessary.

But in some situations; and some locations; I can see where a coach needs to come and be the heavy. Without knowing the details of the situation, we can't make an accurate assessment.

I had a kid come out my first year as a coach. He showed up the first day, and then I didn't see him for two weeks. His dad showed up at practice one day to see "Johnny" do a workout, because "Johnny" had told him he was one of the varsity guys.

"Johnny" wasn't there - he had duped his dad; and was going to a friend's house to smoke weed and hang out. His dad came back to me asking if he could "make it up." I told him that there would be a spot on the team (he was an ok runner, generally good kid - not a varsity runner) as long as he didn't have any unexcused absences or any behavior issues - especially relating to drugs or alcohol.

So, I made an individual rule based on the kid's circumstances with direct communication to the parent. Never had a problem with "Johnny" after that. His dad even sent me a gift certificate to a running store after "Johnny" graduated.

And you sound like an educator. Someone who has never had to make something work in the real world. I am certain that most in academia would agree with you. That you in fact are the center. I am an advocate of teachers as a whole. But individually their flare for self importance is a little egotistical.

The next poster made a great point, that you hang yourself with too many rules. This is how things work in actual fact. You made a hard/fast rule out of necessity and for that you deserve kudos.

At the other end of the spectrum you find those who think that they are Parent, Preacher and life coach all rolled into one.

BTW - I am a Coach.

I'll illustrate with 2 strikes. The kid knows he'll miss a meet if he doesn't call, he doesn't call, he misses the meet. He knows if he doesn't call the next time, it's goodbye until the next season, and he STILL can't be bothered to call. The kid doesn't want to be educated if they're going to break such an easy rule so flagrantly under the threat of that penalty. Kicking him off until the next season is about all you can do. Once they're gone, teams are pretty much unanimous with "what an idiot" about the kid, not "horrible policy" about the coach. Nobody's asking the kids to break the national junior record. Just pick up a phone, dial 7 numbers, mumble 1 sentence, hang up.

In hearing what is going on there was communication from both parents and athletes to the staff. Still they kicked these kids off. One was taking SAT prep courses. Seems they got rid of the wrong ones.

Seems like there is more to the story, but maybe not. I just can't get all that upset over what happens at a private school, though.

Reading this everyone brings their own personal baggage to the thread.

You have coaches calling people "spoild brats" because someone says that a kid (gasp!) might just mayyyyybee struggle on in life if they miss one of your precious xc practices.

And really you CANT compare it to a football team, because you can't practice football on your own. YOU CAN GO FOR A RUN!!

I'm not advocating abandoning practice attendence, but you have to understand that there are certain things more important going on in people's lives, that occationally conflict with xc.

jeeze get over yourselves already.

Digit-Al wrote:

I'm coaching youth football right now and I support that coach's rule, with exceptions for documented illness. You have no idea how hard it is to fill in someone's position in practice (scrimmages especially) if they miss. It is REALLY tough if you only have a few extra players. I was missing 4 of 13 players yesterday including both my DTs while trying to put in my defense. We only have one more practice before the first game.

A few kids/parents who are the "fair weather" kind can hold your team hostage. That sucks for me (giving my time for free) and for the kids who are there and are highly motivated.

School is more important than the sport but you are not kicked out of school for missing a day or part of a day. School-related activities (competing on the math team, visiting colleges) are closely related to the school mission, a sport is not.

In case you have not noticed there is a fundamental difference between an inherently individual sport and a team sport like football.

Students have a lot of things that they must balance and have to take responsibility for. A lot of illnesses do not necessitate getting a doctor's note and is both a nuisance and a financial drain on you and/or an insurance company. If a kid has a cold they probably should not be running an XC workout and probably should be conserving their time and energy by going home. This holds even if they are well enough to go to school but not practice a draining sport. The coach does not have the skills necessary to determine the right medical decision and hence should not be making such decisions. With fees funding at least part of the program are you going to give back the fee for not attending? Maybe the student ought to threaten to sue the coach for the amount of the fee, plus costs. If the coach thinks that they have a 100% valid position then it will not bother them, but ...

If they could have picked up a phone, they gave zero importance to the team.

I hope my kids opt to not run in high school, too much drama from both sides. If they like running and want to run there is plenty of ways (road races mainly and open meets) for them to do it without all this drama.

There's always conflicts and there's a million great reasons why a kid can't make practice or shouldn't practice.

All I'm asking is for contact before missing practice. As many have alluded, the less rules the better. Let the teammates judge actions. No problems like this in a winning culture.

Nobody's brought this up, but i worry sick when a kid misses practice as I consider myself responsible for their well-being during practice and competition.

My favorite suspension was a high school teammate who went underage drinking at the local bar where our baseball coach was eating dinner. They smiled at each other and our coach put up his index finger -- One Game suspension.

Avoiding drama is beyond easy. They shouldn't have trouble.

High school track and cross country teams have BY FAR the least amount of drama of any team I've ever been associated with. Every kid plays and the clock provides objective feedback.

Try dealing with parents of benched athletes in a team sport!

everyone seems to be missing the point! these families did notify the coach, even told the coach to call if there is a problem with their plans, giving him multiple phone number contacts, yet he told one of the families after they returned home from the missed practice time that oops! (not to mention that this apparently was the same week this family went away for the last three years of their daughters HS years) I just saw the email you sent me 2 weeks ago! "This is gonna be a problem." The families have gone to the AD the Principal and the Superintendent. Yet because the coach threatened to resign if they reinstate these athletes that they are supporting a policy which no one has even seen! Wow talk about having your priorities messed up?

If a kid proves to be fast enough in the meets and TT's, he should run varsity (provided he's reliable enough to be expected at meets). If he misses the meets or tt's, then it's certainly fair to put him on JV, unless he's several minutes ahead of the next spot.

Seriously, you're not giving the kid any priviledge by allowing him to come run with the guys at practice once in a while or race JV in the local meets. I'd say you're abusing your power if you deny him these runs.

There isn't anything special about the runs. They can do the same workouts elsewhere, might even give them advise on what they could do.