evidence mounting against Lance Armstrong

I personally think that this whole investigation is unnecessary. Destroying Lance's reputation will not do any good for the sport of cycling or for United States athletics as a whole. I don't think that it will even influence the wide spread doping going on within the Peloton. For those who think that Lance needs to be raked through the coals I think that you really need to evaluate what exactly the benefits and losses of this will be.

Personally, I would just like to know who exactly the titles would go to if all of the dopers were exposed. I wouldn't be surprised if it went far into the peloton to find someone who wasn't doping. If someone closer to professional cycling could offer some incite that would be great. I've always said that if I got (or get) to the point where I could race the tour but my teammates said I needed to dope and they were doping and that everyone did I would probably do it.

Lastly, even if Lance doped it doesn't really change my opinion of him. Andy Schleck is one of my favorite riders and his father was caught with oxygenated blood in his car, so that's pretty good evidence that he is doped. As far as I'm concerned Jens Voigt is the only clean one. But he is a god amongst mortals.

I'm not sure I understand the bile directed at Lance except that he is a 7-time tour de France champion, and no one can provide credible evidence that he doped. Floyd Landis is a proven cheat, and he's obviously out to salve his damaged reputation and ego by attacking a former teammate.

Personally, I would just like to know who exactly the titles would go to if all of the dopers were exposed. I wouldn't be surprised if it went far into the peloton to find someone who wasn't doping...

Frankie Andrue and an unnamed rider from the '99 squad.

Tyler Hamilton

Floyd Landis

So that's four.

Here's a list of all cycling doping cases:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling#2009

Has there ever been an American in the Tour who finished on the podium and didn't dope?

Landis - admitted and tested positive

Lance - clearly doped

LeMond- pretty clearly doped considering he beat dopers

I would say the best clean American rider is Andy Hampsten.

Similar question....Who was the last clean TdF winner? They all dope. Eddy Merckx?

Alan

LawXC wrote:

I personally think that this whole investigation is unnecessary. Destroying Lance's reputation will not do any good for the sport of cycling or for United States athletics as a whole. I don't think that it will even influence the wide spread doping going on within the Peloton. For those who think that Lance needs to be raked through the coals I think that you really need to evaluate what exactly the benefits and losses of this will be.

Interesting perspective. So you think we should just ignore all use of PEDs? Is it just because he's American? If you read the cyclingnews forums like others have suggested, you will see most cyclists very much want their sport cleaned up even if it takes a bombshell such as "Armstrong Doped During His 7 Tour Titles."

For those worried about Tour titles, this investigation is not about stripping Lance of his titles. It's about fraud and tax evasion. It's all about the money trail. One that involves millions of dollars.

It's funny to see the defense of Lance change from "he's never doped" to "so what if he doped, so did everyone else."

Does all of this really matter? I've been a LA fan since his first tour win and I would say that there is definitley a good chance that he was a doper or at least encouraged his teamates to dope. With that said you should also realize that the entire peloton was doping during those 7 tours. It was pretty much an even playing field amongst the riders that had the best chance of winning because they had their whole teams doped. LA comes out on top because he is physiologically supieror to everyone else as proven by test results. Lance is one of the most physiologically gifted athletes to ever be tested. So take everyone off the dope and Lance still wins 7 tours. This whole argument is pointless because everyone was doing it!

The ironic thing is if he did not win all those tours and collect all that sponsorship money, the US would have lost millions of tax dollars to a foreign cyclists country. He also created some economic growth via all the yuppies trading in huffy's for a $5,000 trek, and the tax revenues that generated.

Not necessarily. The teams with larger budgets and better sponsors and better doctors/chemists are going to have access to better and more cutting edge dope. They're also going to have more sophisticated means of being a few steps ahead of the testers.

I always kind of assumed everyone was doping as well, but the article a month ago in the WSJ about Landis and Armstrong was interesting in that they mention that when Landis joined the Phonak team in 2005 they didn't really have a doping program.

Of course Floyd's credibility isn't stellar but this seems like a strange thing to make up. Also a lack of a doping program doesn't mean they were all clean, but I think it does suggest that it might not be (or have been) completely institutionalized.

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748704911704575326753200584006.html

Its not a strange thing to make up. Landis wanted to vilify Lance and making other teams seem clean accomplishes that.

HangEmAll wrote:

I always kind of assumed everyone was doping as well, but the article a month ago in the WSJ about Landis and Armstrong was interesting in that they mention that when Landis joined the Phonak team in 2005 they didn't really have a doping program.

Of course Floyd's credibility isn't stellar but this seems like a strange thing to make up. Also a lack of a doping program doesn't mean they were all clean, but I think it does suggest that it might not be (or have been) completely institutionalized.

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748704911704575326753200584006.html

Uh, what evidence? Unnamed sources reported that unnamed riders? WTF?

this site really needed another long thread arguing about lance armstrong.

can't someone just pin one to the top and you douchenozzles can go back forth for the next hundred years?

1000000 posts about the same thing! you can do it!

Don't forget Lance beat drug cheats as well: Jan Ulrich, Tyler Hamilton, Floyd Landis, Ivan Basso,...

Are the Lance supporters trying to tell me that he is the 1st ever athlete to beat world class drug cheats. How has that worked so far for clean athletes in track and field?

Haven't they learned anything from Barry Bonds?

They have been after him 6 or 7 YEARS now and STILL DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE to prosecute and the whole world knows he roided up. What will it accomplish other than get the prosecutor a promotion?

Apples wrote:

I hope the law pinches him hard and takes away his opportunities to be with his kids. He shouldn't be allowed to see them anymore.

You should be allowed to have any.

ronner wrote:

Does anyone know or have a list of all of Lance Armstrong's teammates and former teammates that have been busted for PED use? How many are actually on that list? What are their names. I always hear he's had several teammates and former teammates get busted, but seeing the list all in one spot would be interesting.

Off the top of my head: Hamilton, Heras, Landis, Beltran, Andreu. Questions now circling around Leipheimer.

Thanks for letting me know that I should be allowed to have kids.