that was an embarrassing race
i figured leo would grow some balls
and using rabbits is spineless even when trying to break records
that was an embarrassing race
i figured leo would grow some balls
and using rabbits is spineless even when trying to break records
grow a pair wrote:
I posted this in a different thread but I think it belongs here too...
Agreed. Without a doubt, this entire meet has been nothing but a complete embarassment to USA track and field. There is a HUGE difference between a tactical race, and a chickenshit race, and the 1500, 5k and 10k, were 100% chickenshit races. With American distance running, it seems that every race is either an all out time trial, with rabbits and a stacked field, or a race where everyone walks through the first 3/4 and kicks and the end for an awful time. In international competition, like world championships and the Olympics, neither of these strategies will EVER work against the likes of the east Africans. This meet has confirmed that the US is as far as ever from a medal in any type of world championship race. TACTICAL =/= SLOW TIME. TRY WATCHING VIDEOS OF SOME AFRICANS. I really hope that not many people from other countries look at these results, as they are humiliating and pathetic. I dont care if there is no world championships this year, a national championship is a national championship, and it should not be treated as a race to jog around and get a bonus on your contract for a win.
You mean you really believed that we wanted to read the same bullshit twice?????
At least Tommy Schmitz tore it up.
who cares about times tactical races are more fun to watch
It does seem a bit slow, but does anyone know what the actual temperature and humidity was during the race? I'm in Chicago and it was 87, around 75% humidity. I can't race in this weather for crap, and I think it may have been warmer in Iowa today. Definitely far less ideal for distance than the weather you'd get in Portland or Stanford.
It would be interesting to compare championship performances and the weather. I know NCAA champs had a couple straight years of fast 1500 winning times, 3:35-36 a while back. What was different then?
jjjjjjjjj wrote:
'and it was not exactly distance weather.'
Yeah 1500m thats a really long distance
This wouldn't have happened if Gabe Jennings was in the field.
TT Man wrote:
I've always though it would be interesting to turn the distance races into time trials. You run alone, fastest time wins. What could be more honest and require more guts?
Interesting idea, but probably not practical in track, as the long races take enough time already. They clearly can't run solo, so you stagger start. Hmmm... if you start a runner every 15 seconds, then you only take about 3 more minutes for a middle distance race, or 5 for a 10k field of 20 or so.
If you started the best seeds last, you'd sometimes (often?) see people catch the person in front of them, perhaps multiple people. But the finish line would be chaos until people learned how to deal with it.
It is an interesting thought experiment, but I really don't see it working in track. Maybe you could try it for a road race with an elite field - that would ease the technical problems for a long race (lapped runners, etc). And chip timing would make it rather simple...
doggpound wrote:
who cares about times tactical races are more fun to watch
How is seeing the best 1500 runners in our country go through 800 in roughly the pace that the HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS 1500 record is fun to watch? That's awful.
your an idiot, thats the same as saying, a d2 athlete scores 30 points in the ncaa final, if kobe only scores 24 then the d2 athlete is better... NO. it's not all about points, similarly, running isn't all about time. idiot.
Wondering in the West wrote:
Not sure, but six guys ran faster than the winner, shouldn't happen. The D2 basketball player is not better than Kobe Bryant.
Shouldn't we expect the time to be faster than the D2 and NAIA races? If not, why time them, why not just run for fun?
good lord wrote:
What a bunch of p******.
This year's national 1,500 is actually quite typical for the US champs...why do you think Terrence Herrington won so many titles in the 1990's? Muggy, Midwest conditions (plus wind)...what do expect...don't be so naive.
Leo ran a fine, controlled race.
What were the splits for the Jr. Men's 1500?
2:15 is not controlled, it's having the brake on pretty heavy. 2:00 is controlled.
Silly Old Fossil wrote:
good lord wrote:What a bunch of p******.
This year's national 1,500 is actually quite typical for the US champs...why do you think Terrence Herrington won so many titles in the 1990's?
Who?
I didn't really follow T&F closely in the 90s but I have never heard of this guy.
I don't think anyone mentioned the fact that the qualifying heats were unusually quick. I took the previous list with PRs and added their heat times. Some of these guys were running within 1 to 3 seconds of their PRs, in heat and humidity. So the slower guys pretty much shot their wads to get into the final, and were too spent to be cowboys and push the pace. In that context, it starts to make more sense. Hopefully some of these guys will go to Europe and run some quick races.
Lopez Lomong – 3:32, 3:40.18
Leonel Manzano – 3:33, 3:39.88
Will Leer – 3:37, 3:40.23
David Torrence – 3:35, 3:39.67
Matthew Centrowitz – 3:36, 3:40.14
Russell Brown – 3:37, 3:40.53
John Bolas – 3:37, 3:40.23
Matt Tegenkamp – 3:34, 3:39.57
Ryan Hill – 3:40?, 3:40.22
Garrett Heath – 3:36, 3:40.54
John Mickowski – 3:39?, 3:40.61
Stephen Pifer – 3:38?, 3:40.13
Are you guys really this stupid. Let's look at the field. All of the Oregon TC guys (like Teg and Solinsky) were in that race as a workout. They are mainly 5 and 10k guys, Salazar wanted them to get some speed training in (that's one reason why they were not in the 5k, 10k). Lomong and Leo just wanted to win, but they weren't going to kill themselves, so they just camped and waited. They would have won regardless. The main point is, for the elite runners, the 1500m at the USA CHAMPIONSHIPS are completely pointless. The competition isn't that good and for the most part, the rest of the world doesn't care. These guys have bigger races coming up in Europe and the Prefontaine classic, which all have good competition. Furthermore, this meet is super early and these guys aren't going to set PRs or new American Records, they'll do that in the European season which starts in a few weeks. That's another reason that Ritz, Teg, and Solinsky didn't the 5 and 10 because they would not have gotten the fast time that they wanted (they'd prefer to rest and run a 26:30 in Europe instead of killing themselves running a 26:50 now and then only hit 26:45 or something later on). These guys want to set records, and they were not going to do that here. So yes, this race was practically meaningless to the top runners, since they would much rather be setting records instead of taking a US title for 2010.
I think the fact that the Oregon TC guys opted for the 1500m- a race that they would not win against Lomong instead of their best races, which they could have won or had a chance to win, further proves that in their eyes, the US title for one year is meaningless.
He needs to move up, he has tried front running in other finals and has had the same result as he had here.
My Name is Judge wrote:
I was waiting for Stephen Pifer to do something! He should've made it honest.
Sitting is a perfectly logical strategy if you are Manzano, Lomong, or Leer. Manzano and Lomong were the class of the field, and Leer has a killer kick. He had his best finish ever this year! But Teg? Or any of the rest of those guys? If you can run 3:34, and Leer can't (yet!), why not do it and beat him? Worst thing that happens is that Manzano and Lomong kick Teg down for 1st and 2nd, and he gets 3rd. 3rd's better than 8th in my book, but hey, maybe he didn't care about the place if it wasn't 1st.
Wondering in the West wrote:
The worst one I saw was in Eugene, where Doug Padilla barely broke 14K to win the national title (or was it the Pre Meet, so long ago, I can't remember)... not one guy in the race tried to challenge him, and every guy running 30 seconds over his PR. It's like they were there for show. The weather was fine, the wind was slow, they set it up for Padilla to win. Why even run the race?
Was that the 1986 U.S. Nationals? As I recall it was really windy. So windy Padilla's last 200 was around 25.0 or faster.
The year before Maree set up a fast race and Padilla got him in the last 200 to set a meet record that lasted 20 years. And in 1987 Maree finally got him with a 2:59 last 1200 in a 13:50 race.
If you have no chance at finishing top 3, then you are not sacrificing anything by pushing the pace or taking the lead. And if you sit back and think you're running well because you're with the top runners (until the kick), then you're just delusional.