Ivy Coaching

I ran for Columbia back in the mid-80s. I know they've upgraded their facilities since then, but I remember having to take a van to Manhattan College for indoor track work and to a grafitti covered track in the Bronx and an old dirt track by VCP during the summer. As pointed out by some other posters, there are quite a variety of runs, but some of them require a bit of driving.

Anybody considering Columbia, be aware that NYC is the most distracting place in the US. There's so much to do that it's easy to lose focus. I couldn't take the distractions and left after my first year.

BTW: where's the house in Massachusetts?

I like dartmouth the 4 months of the year when its warm enough to see the trails. The training overall there sucks (it snows 8 months of the year). Cornell is worse. Brown gets rain and sleet instead of snow (as does harvard and Yale). Penn really has no distance program, princton is in Jersey (if you like princton you belong there because you wouldn't fit in the other IVY's), Columbia is ok, but until recently suffered from Penns problem. I would reccomend going south to Duke or west to Stanford.....the running is better in both places and the schooling is about the same.

Even better - check out William and Mary or U of VA. Both schools have great coaches and are great academic institutions where you will get a first rate education without having to endure all those private school snobs you find in the ivies.

8 months a year huh? try mid-november through end of february, early march at the latest. that's about half of your 8 months. I agree that those four months aren't the greatest, but the rest is the best training in the ivy league as far as the number and variety of trail and road runs that are available.

It doesn't snow for a longer window of time in hanover, it just snows a whole lot more within that window, and it's colder.

TRRR wrote:

I like dartmouth the 4 months of the year when its warm enough to see the trails. The training overall there sucks (it snows 8 months of the year). Cornell is worse. Brown gets rain and sleet instead of snow (as does harvard and Yale). Penn really has no distance program, princton is in Jersey (if you like princton you belong there because you wouldn't fit in the other IVY's), Columbia is ok, but until recently suffered from Penns problem. I would reccomend going south to Duke or west to Stanford.....the running is better in both places and the schooling is about the same.

I love how you couldn't come up with something bad to say about training around Penn, so you just insult their program. Real classy.

MoatBuilder - things have changed a litte bit since the 80's at Columbia. They use the Armory for indoor track now. Thats considered one of the best tracks in the country. I dont know what "grafitti covered track in the Bronx " you are referring to, but Columbia has a very nice athletic facilty at the northern tip of Manhattan with a very nice track. This facility contains the football stadium with the track surrouding the field, soccer fields, basball fields, a tennis bubble, and some practice fields. It also has a real nice view of the Hudson from the stands. As for the summer, most people go home to do their training, so I dont know what dirt track for summer training you are talking about either. Any serious runner would be more dedicated to their sport and be able to handle "the distractions" of NYC. It is not "the most distracting place in the US." I am willing to bet that it wasn't the distractions that you couldn't take any longer which made you leave. You probably couldn't handle academics and athletics at an Ivy League institution.

Cmiyc,

As I said in my post, I heard that Columbia's facilities have been upgraded.

I'm not sure why you chose to insult me.

"I am willing to bet that it wasn't the distractions that you couldn't take any longer which made you leave. You probably couldn't handle academics and athletics at an Ivy League institution."

You sound like a real jerk.

I mentioned the distractions because it's a real consideration when choosing a school. An eighteen-year-old, from a small town, who is 3000 miles from home is going to experience some culture shock living on his own for the first time in NYC. Oh, well. For the record, if CU were on the west coast I would have stayed.

I'm a sprinter and I'm considering some Ivy Schools(Williams College as well) and I was wondering which Ivy schools have the best sprint programs.

northrunner,

tell your daughter that especially since she lives in Massachusetts again that she should join GBTC - we have a 2:10/4:35 woman who needs a training partner asap - especially since her husband's good friend (Neil Wechsler)used to be a member and will talk us up

anyway, back to Ivy coaching. bluntly, all of the Ivy coaches are under such a giant microscope from the alumni that all them will produce good distance runners if the runner is dedicated. most distance runners tend to be nice smart grounded people at all schools. go to the school and check it out WITHOUT looking at the track. be prepared for the worst, what happens if you tear your achilles on the first day ? then what ? will you still like it or will you head for the gorge and ponder the afterlife ?

to say Penn has no distance program, nice touch. they only have the all-time lowest XC score at Heps and the Van Cortlandt record holder

Canadien wrote:

Thank you. I appreciate your help. If anyone else has comments, feel free to add them.

Check out the Heps results on the front page.

I think Brown only has one or two walk-ons, and both came onto the squad last fall (02). I could be wrong, but I don't think time/money (program funds, etc, I don't mean scholarships) works in the favor of walk-ons at Brown. Not that this is especially helpful, but if you could get your times within a recruitable range that would help.

At this point I'm being one of those Ivy League students procrastinating and not doing work, so I actually read all of these analysis and I don't usually respond, but I feel the need to in one respect. From the start I will admit that I am biased as I run for Princeton and have an excellent relationship with Coach Brady, the distance coach here. Car salesman? Please, through all my injuries, acadmeics conflicts, and anything else that came in the way of my training he has been there supporting me 100%. Don't try to judge someone's character through one bad incident or because recruiting didn't go well for you. Recruiting is a horrible process for high school athletes and college coaches to go through, but to say someone can't coach or isn't mindful of their athletes problems is lame.

But I may as well comment on some other things while I'm at it. First, when judging success, don't just look at one event. Just because someone has gotten better in a mile from their high school pr doesn't mean they are a better runner or haven't improved as much as others. People change and so do their events. A lot of guys step up in distance, like myself, and have had HUGE improvements in the longer events than in the shorter events.

Long story short, you are going to get many negative posts from rival alums/current runners in this thread. Every school in the conference has had runners compete well on the national level within the past 10 years under the current coaches. Different people react to different coaches, and you really don't know how it will pan out until you get there, dedicate yourself, and start training.

Cornell -- Hyde, Tassinari, Dombroski

Dartmouth -- McArdle, Shoemaker

Columbia -- Sundell, Galgano, Gibbons

Harvard -- Carswell, McLean-Foreman

Princeton -- Morrison, Baird, Colangelo,

Brown -- Gray, Buechel, E. Johnson

UPenn -- Martin, Burley, Lieb

Yale -- Lobue, Meyer

This less than exhaustive list shows that all of the programs have indeed had standouts. Do some have more success than others? Yes, but do not underestimate the recruiting advantages that some of the schools posess. It's undeniable that 3 of the schools have names that stand out, making it tough for the other 5 to compete for the same kids.

Just go where your gut tells you to go.

Coach Lake? I don't know who else would defend Columbia so much.....

What kinds of times are good enough for Ivy League walk-ons, esp. Princeton, for the 800/1600/3200/5000?

times? wrote:

What kinds of times are good enough for Ivy League walk-ons, esp. Princeton, for the 800/1600/3200/5000?

There's no real number, if you're willing to do the work you'll be welcomed. Mike Brady, the present XC coach has just retired but the new coach will be selected shortly.

"I don't get it"... you missed a few...

Cornell- Brian Clas

Dartmouth- Sapienza and Kempainan... though neither were trained by Harwick and both attended some time ago (80s)

Columbia- Casey Oshea and Tom Kloos. Casey was a 2-time steeple chase All American and Tom had the 5th fastest time in the country in the steeple last year. Ray Biersbach aint too shabby either with prs of 4:02 and 14:02.

Uhmmm bigtime coach, i do work. I was working 40 how for 7 months. i took about a month off when i got to ithaca but now i work 25 how at a crappy pizza place in town. Don't talk when you know nothing about my situation. I can't wait for school to start. After working full time in a kitchen studying for 2 hours seems a lot easier. I think that college is pretty ideal. Does it f*** with your sleep? yes. but at least the work is easy, you can sit down the whole time. I think that my time at the bars is much more detrimental to my running than school....

Uhmmm bigtime coach, i do work. I was working 40 hpw for 7 months. i took about a month off when i got to ithaca but now i work 25 hpw at a crappy pizza place in town. Don't talk when you know nothing about my situation. I can't wait for school to start. After working full time in a kitchen studying for 2 hours seems a lot easier. I think that college is pretty ideal. Does it f*** with your sleep? yes. but at least the work is easy, you can sit down the whole time. I think that my time at the bars is much more detrimental to my running than school....