Is Bob Dylan's music intentionally terrible for ironic purposes?

I agree, Bob Dillon sucks, he always will suck and people only like him who are stoned hippies that try and believe something is "deep" in his lyrics. LOL. But get real, he sucks, and he cant sing worth a lick.

yeah, he influenced the Beatles all right lol, he introduced them to drugs lol.... and hippy playing acoustics..... but most certainly no musical influence because HE SUCKS lol

He had 5 good years off the bat. He has been just stretching it out and faking it out for the last 50 plus years.

Slowpokeman wrote:

In terms of his ability as a songwriter, I would challenge any of you with children to listen to Susan Tedeschi's version of "Lord Protect My Child" and have it not bring a tear to your eyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRbZDqwr2Cg

In terms of his singing, Keith Richards once said Dylan's voice was the most effective instrument ever invented.

He is a cultural talent and treasure on the level of a Beethoven or Shakespeare. Perhaps the only artist of our era that 300 years from now will still be listened to, studied, and debated.

I agree. I suspect that he changed language more than any writer since Shakespeare, and used and recycled language more than anyone in modern popular culture. As Ginsberg said "God's challenge to Dylan was to create great art on a jukebox..."

Always been a moderate fan and I own a bunch of his stuff. That said, his Christmas album has to be the Plan 9 from Outer Space of Christmas albums. I can picture the engineers laughing their asses off while recording it. "O.K., Bob, this time do it for real. Wait, that was for real?" Always puts me in a good holiday mood because I laugh too every time I hear it.

Dylan is fantastic as is.....

Charley Patton

Bukka White

Blind Wiliie Johnson

Dr.John

Joe Cocker

Leon Russell

Tom Wits

It was was a different time in terms of music back then in the 60s. You are judging it from a perspective where most popular music nowadays is very rich in harmony melody, and rhythm. I would say Dylan's music was more like poetry.

bobby dylan wrote:...I would say Dylan's music was more like poetry.

He did receive the Nobel prize in literature for his lyrics, and not every other songwriter can say the same...

I wrote on page one ten years ago (as then-not-yet-banned Pete) that Dylan is an acquired taste. Acquired by people with taste, that is... :-)

Brahva wrote:

I agree, Bob Dillon sucks, he always will suck and people only like him who are stoned hippies that try and believe something is "deep" in his lyrics. LOL. But get real, he sucks, and he cant sing worth a lick.

Yes, it's a psyop.

26mi235 wrote:

If Dylan were just a good song writer, there would be a lot of Dylan songs and the most memorable versions would be by others. He's got a large number of memorable songs and I cannot think of one where the most memorable version is by someone else.

I know that you think that tens of millions of people are wrong and you have it all figured out, but the objective evidence seems to indicate elsewise. (and you probably think thte same of Leonard Cohen, or maybe you do not know who he is)

Nobody bought any Leonard Cohen records. He was terrible in every way. His voice, his delivery, his songs, his lyrics, that dumba$$ hat.

The hype machine made him into a legend after his death.

Giles Corey wrote:

Nobody bought any Leonard Cohen records. He was terrible in every way. His voice, his delivery, his songs, his lyrics, that dumba$$ hat.

The hype machine made him into a legend after his death.

I was a big Dylan fan in the 80s into the 90s, a latecomer to Dylan fandom, but kinda lost track of him after that. Still, I think Dylan is great and probably posted in this thread in its original round 10 years ago.

I never got Leonard Cohen. 'Hallelujah' is a nice song, but not a masterpiece. Like you said, he was never a big deal but developed a kinda hipsterish "look at me, I'm a fan of an old guy you've probably never heard of" following in the past decade. I wouldn't say 'terrible', however, he's more of a 'meh'.

elephino wrote:

Giles Corey wrote:

Nobody bought any Leonard Cohen records. He was terrible in every way. His voice, his delivery, his songs, his lyrics, that dumba$$ hat.

The hype machine made him into a legend after his death.

I was a big Dylan fan in the 80s into the 90s, a latecomer to Dylan fandom, but kinda lost track of him after that. Still, I think Dylan is great and probably posted in this thread in its original round 10 years ago.

I never got Leonard Cohen. 'Hallelujah' is a nice song, but not a masterpiece. Like you said, he was never a big deal but developed a kinda hipsterish "look at me, I'm a fan of an old guy you've probably never heard of" following in the past decade. I wouldn't say 'terrible', however, he's more of a 'meh'.

He is cringe inducing. Just horrible.

Dylan has a lot of great songs. Not the best voice of all time, but it works

I myself am trying to find out what I'm missing. when people say he's a folk songwriting great I'm looking for it but I can't find it. II can't compare him to Burt Bacharach who is great Joni Mitchell The Carpenters Carly Simon Carole King James Taylor to me those are great folk songwriters. And I know Dylan's name is up there with them but I don't hear it ..All I hear is a whacked out nonsensical Stoner trying to make sense of stuff that's not sensical. And attracts people for a mystery of something that's not even there. I'm open-minded and I understand poetry but even that I don't get it when it comes to Dylan. Maybe I need a do more psychedelics I don't know?? Help a sister out.

I ain't sayin ya treated me unkind

You coulda done better, but I don't mind

You just kinda wasted my precious time

Don't think twice, it's alright

----

I was burned out from exhaustion

Buried in the hail

Poisoned in the bushes

Blown out on the trail

Hunted like a crocodile

Ravaged in the corn

Come in, she said I'll give ya

Shelter from the storm

---

Yes to dance beneath the diamond skies with one hand waving free

Silhouetted by the sea

Circled by the circus sands

With all memory and fate

Driven deep beneath the waves

Let me forget about today until tomorrow

---

Ain't it just like the night to play tricks when you're tryin' to be so quiet?

We sit here stranded, though we're all doin' our best to deny it

And Louise holds a handful of rain, temptin' you to defy it

Lights flicker from the opposite loft

In this room the heat pipes just cough

The country music station plays soft

But there's nothing, really nothing to turn off

Just Louise and her lover so entwined

And these visions of Johanna that conquer my mind

---

etc.

Wont get fooled again wrote:

Arguably the first rap song in pop music.

Who are the best five rappers of all time? Think about it....

Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, and Dylan. Because he spits hot fire.

Most of his best songs are from early 1960s (70s too) - but that is now 60 years ago! Put his music in a little context. It was elvis before him - this guy was pre beatles.

His music is incredible - yes I really like it.

But perhaps just as significant, his influence can't be overstated. If you read musician biographies you'll find that nearly all of them identify Bob Dylan as a huge influence or more, someone they completely idolized - the beatles, jimmy hendrix, kurt cobain, the dead, and more. The variety of bands that worked off of what he did is incredible.

Like a Rolling Stone - really changed rock music. One of the best rock songs of all time

If you need everything spelled out for you and if you have no sense of context or historical knowledge then I would understand how you feel how you do. My fav Dylan period is the born again years. Especially this one he co-wrote with Sam Shepard. It's a bit of an epic, but you "understand poetry" so I'm sure it wouldn't be too much for you.

Brownsville Girl

Well, there was this movie I seen one time

About a man riding ’cross the desert and it starred Gregory Peck

He was shot down by a hungry kid trying to make a name for himself

The townspeople wanted to crush that kid down and string him up by the neck

Well, the marshal, now he beat that kid to a bloody pulp

As the dying gunfighter lay in the sun and gasped for his last breath

“Turn him loose, let him go, let him say he outdrew me fair and square

I want him to feel what it’s like to every moment face his death”

Well, I keep seeing this stuff and it just comes a-rolling in

And you know it blows right through me like a ball and chain

You know I can’t believe we’ve lived so long and are still so far apart

The memory of you keeps callin’ after me like a rollin’ train

I can still see the day that you came to me on the painted desert

In your busted down Ford and your platform heels

I could never figure out why you chose that particular place to meet

Ah, but you were right. It was perfect as I got in behind the wheel

Well, we drove that car all night into San Anton’

And we slept near the Alamo, your skin was so tender and soft

Way down in Mexico you went out to find a doctor and you never came back

I would have gone on after you but I didn’t feel like letting my head get blown off

Well, we’re drivin’ this car and the sun is comin’ up over the Rockies

Now I know she ain’t you but she’s here and she’s got that dark rhythm in her soul

But I’m too over the edge and I ain’t in the mood anymore to remember the times

when I was your only man

And she don’t want to remind me. She knows this car would go out of control

*Chorus*

Well, we crossed the panhandle and then we headed towards Amarillo

We pulled up where Henry Porter used to live. He owned a wreckin’ lot

outside of town about a mile

Ruby was in the backyard hanging clothes, she had her red hair tied back.

She saw us come rolling up in a trail of dust

She said, “Henry ain’t here but you can come on in, he’ll be back in a little while”

Then she told us how times were tough and about how she was thinkin’ of

bummin’ a ride back to from where she started

But ya know, she changed the subject every time money came up

She said, “Welcome to the land of the living dead”

You could tell she was so broken hearted

She said, “Even the swap meets around here are getting pretty corrupt”

“How far are y’all going?” Ruby asked us with a sigh

“We’re going all the way ’til the wheels fall off and burn

’Til the sun peels the paint and the seat covers fade and the water moccasin dies”

Ruby just smiled and said, “Ah, you know some babies never learn”

Something about that movie though, well I just can’t get it out of my head

But I can’t remember why I was in it or what part I was supposed to play

All I remember about it was Gregory Peck and the way people moved

And a lot of them seemed to be lookin’ my way

*Chorus*

Well, they were looking for somebody with a pompadour

I was crossin’ the street when shots rang out

I didn’t know whether to duck or to run, so I ran

“We got him cornered in the churchyard,” I heard somebody shout

Well, you saw my picture in the Corpus Christi Tribune. Underneath it,

it said, “A man with no alibi”

You went out on a limb to testify for me, you said I was with you

Then when I saw you break down in front of the judge and cry real tears

It was the best acting I saw anybody do

Now I’ve always been the kind of person that doesn’t like to trespass

but sometimes you just find yourself over the line

Oh if there’s an original thought out there, I could use it right now

You know, I feel pretty good, but that ain’t sayin’ much.

I could feel a whole lot better

If you were just here by my side to show me how

Well, I’m standin’ in line in the rain to see a movie starring Gregory Peck

Yeah, but you know it’s not the one that I had in mind

He’s got a new one out now, I don’t even know what it’s about

But I’ll see him in anything so I’ll stand in line

*Chorus*

You know, it’s funny how things never turn out the way you had ’em planned

The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter

is that his name wasn’t Henry Porter

And you know there was somethin’ about you baby that I liked

that was always too good for this world

Just like you always said there was somethin’ about me you liked

that I left behind in the French Quarter

Strange how people who suffer together have stronger connections

than people who are most content

I don’t have any regrets, they can talk about me plenty when I’m gone

You always said people don’t do what they believe in,

they just do what’s most convenient, then they repent

And I always said, “Hang on to me, baby, and let’s hope that the roof stays on”

There was a movie I seen one time, I think I sat through it twice

I don’t remember who I was or where I was bound

All I remember about it was it starred Gregory Peck, he wore a gun

and he was shot in the back

Seems like a long time ago, long before the stars were torn down

*Chorus*

shsd wrote:

I'm just trying to see why people like his music. Obviously (excuse me if this is TOO obvious), people don't actually think the music itself is good -- but what am I missing? Clearly it's irony, yes?

What are you missing? Well, for one thing you are missing some poetry and song that is rich in imagery and euphony. It, the words and music, also represents and reflects ideas and attitudes of the 2nd half of Twentieth Century counterculture and art. As a musician active during that time I at first had some problems with Dylan's nasal voice that took liberties with pitch and sorority.

Before I let myself step outside my little Jazz sanctuary and began to listen and resonate with the deeper artistic elements of the man as Troubador and poet-of-his-time, influenced by some other folks singers and poets, but who shaped up ad a original and imo and American Treasure. Not on a level with Louis Armstrong, or Charlie Parker but a real and true artist. I also came to appreciate Tom Waits and The Beatles musically and culturaly.

If you disagree that's fine but just my pennysworth of opinion.

"Sonority," although I image some "sororities "appreciated Mr. D.