rekrunner wrote:Not directed direclty at "evil", but please someone, correct me if I'm wrong. The way I understand them, neither Paleo nor Atkins diets are necessarily "high meat" diets.
You are correct about Paleo; it is by no means high protein/low carb, and in terms of the recommended foods, very balanced. My lunch today is steamed brussels sprouts with olive oil and a raw food bar made of dates and various nuts. NOT low carb.
Guilherme wrote:The Paleo Diet works wonders if you can get accustomed to it. I've been on it for 7 months due to intestinal issues. The first two months my blood sugar levels were whacked and I could barely complete a 5k much less race it. Within 5 months I had set new PR's on everything from mile to 1/2M. My long runs still exceed 15 miles. Once your body gets used to it, you will never need complex carbs again. BTW, this diet is not low carb. It's the type of carbs you eat. It may be less carbs than the traditional carbo load philosophy but it is NOT a low carb diet. Trust me, your energy will return within weeks and you will likely run faster than ever. But you have to suffer the initiation. And it sucks.
My experience has been similar!
I have to say that this is perhaps the most amicable thread I've ever seen on Letsrun! Lots of different opinions with very few flames if any. Maybe it's because we're all eating what we should! :)
I am trying it and it is working for me. I run about the same times in races on 40% less mileage (only about 30 mpw now), very little problems with injuries or strains. There is still a balancing act to figure what works for me. But over all it is a great way to go if you are looking for better health and fitness, not just in running but in general.
I have to agree that this has been an amazing thread and, although I haven't contributed much lately, I am proud to have been the original poser of the question!!! Thanks for all of the great input.
oh cmon, paleo got some bright sides (cut down milk and grains), but it's generally crap without scientific evidence. Sure it helps if someone got allergy to milk or grains (and alot of people have), but it's minor change.
Properly composed diet can be a MIRACLE, but it must be based on years of research, not some paleo myths.
Here comes SCIENCE:
properly composed diet reversed prostate cancer and completely changed active genes, effect was greater for people who didn't cheat with "just last cheeseburger".
still works after 2 years
and here we have reversed coronary heart disease
Science. It works.
J.R. wrote:
Alchohol causes osteoporosis?
tomtom wrote:
yes, indirectly - cirrhosis of the liver cause very fast progression of osteoporosis
Oh I see, so people who die from cirrhosis of the liver, later die again from osteoporosis.
Or it could be that people who drink heavily also consume the greatest amounts of meat and other animal foods.
come on tomtom. you claim to promote science but the studies you cite are lifestyle interventions not diet trials. You can not use these studies to support or refute any particular diet because they change so many variables.
tomtom wrote:oh cmon, paleo got some bright sides (cut down milk and grains), but it's generally crap without scientific evidence.
Cordain's scientific research isn't science? Have you read any of his studies?
AC XC wrote:
come on tomtom. you claim to promote science but the studies you cite are lifestyle interventions not diet trials. You can not use these studies to support or refute any particular diet because they change so many variables.
of course in such studies they changed many aspects of life. Diet alone can't help you if you overdose heroine (or nicotine). But keep in mind, that it's first time in history of medicine when such therapy reversed cancer or coronary heart disease. There is alot of smoking-free people who die due to cancer or heart attack, but there is no smoking-free low-fat vegan who suffer from it.
Paleo4Me wrote:
Cordain's scientific research isn't science? Have you read any of his studies?
The only STUDY by Cordain is about dietary salt inducing asthmatic problems during exercise. At least it's the only I was able to find.
Other articles are just science fiction.
tomtom wrote:
Other articles are just science fiction.
In YOUR opinion, tomtom.
Paleo4Me wrote:
In YOUR opinion, tomtom.
nop, study = putting some people on diet and see what happens, science fiction = writing fairy tales about paleotic people.
tomtom wrote:
nop, study = putting some people on diet and see what happens, science fiction = writing fairy tales about paleotic people.
Is there a study showing that the Paleo diet is "science fiction" and invalid? If not, then what you say is INDEED your opinion.
To call Cordain's research "fairy tales" is pejorative and unwarranted. No, there isn't a definitive study to "prove" his Paleo diet leads to long-term health, but that would be difficult, wouldn't it, given that he published his books only recently? The following link is to his published research page, and while you may dismiss it, others may benefit from it, as I have.
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/published_research/Yep, that was a big problem back in the Paleo days. Heel spurs. All the Cro Magnons and Neanderthals that lived past 25 years old had this as a problem. Luckily most didn't live that long otherwise bone carved orthotics would have been all the rage.
Of course I don't know what your wife did, but I don't think it has changed much since the 1992 book I read (I didn't read them all).Although the books give many shocking, to good to be true, examples like how healthy bacon cheeseburgers can be, when you analyze how the different phases are defined, the only variable controlled is daily grams of carbs. The idea is that low carb intake makes you lose weight, high intake makes you gain weight, and the diet is to, first go low, then find the two "thresholds", and then stay in between.He implies these "thresholds" are static, but I've often wondered things like, if you start marathon training, or Tour de France training, can you eat more carbs? I think so.Admittedly, I exaggerated with my example of what qualifies as Atkins (e.g. because the way I described it doesn't strictly follow his 4 phases, or have you counting daily carb intake), just to highlight that reducing excess sugar and starch, leading to desired weight loss and control, is effectively the same method and result that Atkins' advises.In summary, Atkins can be extreme, but doesn't absolutely require it.(But I don't want to turn this into an Atkins thread -- I'm not recommending it, and I never did it, since running was always effective in losing and controlling my weight. I'm just trying to clarify what it isn't.)
Paleo4Me wrote:
That is a different Atkins than my wife followed several years ago. It seems to have been modified considerably.
rekrunner wrote:Of course I don't know what your wife did, but I don't think it has changed much since the 1992 book I read (I didn't read them all).
I may be remembering what my wife did in the first phase of the diet, too. Here's a much better example of an extreme diet: there's a guy on the Paleo list to which I subscribe who claims that the only reason for exercise is to rid the body of poisonous carbohydrates; he eats nothing but meat. No thanks!
Oh yeah, another benefit of Paleo is you'll never be bloated, indigested or get the toots again. Or the "fluffs" as you ladies call it.
I'm sure there are those who would succeed, but I'd just get massively sick. Therefore, I follow these guys:
>>>>>>
"Daily nutrient intake
About 86 percent of daily calories came from vegetable sources, with 14 percent from animal foods. As you might expect, the Kenyan-runners' diets were extremely rich in carbohydrate, with 76.5 percent of daily calories coming from carbs. The Kenyans ate about 10.4 grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of body mass each day, or approximately 4.7 grams per pound of body weight.
An amazing facet of the Kenyans' eating habits was the consistency of this carbohydrate intake: Every 24 hours, the Kenyans took in about 600 grams of carbohydrate, with very little variation from day to day. They were truly stocking their leg muscles with glycogen, giving their sinews the right fuel necessary for the high-intensity training they were conducting -- and avoiding the fatigue which automatically follows on the heels of glycogen wipe-outs.
Incidentally, sports-nutrition experts frequently recommend that athletes involved in strenuous training should consume about nine or more grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of body mass per day, so you can see that the Kenyans were truly eating according to current scientific wisdom.
Given such an ample carbohydrate intake and the reliance on vegetable foods, fat intake was bound to be modest, and it was: About 13.4 percent of daily calories came from fat (~46 grams), with 61 percent of these calories coming from milk (Kenyan runners ordinarily place full-cream milk in their tea).
Protein intake amounted to 10.1 percent of all calories and a total of 1.3 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day (75 total grams daily). Once again, the Kenyans were fully in line with recommendations of top sports nutritionists, who call for protein intakes of ~1.2 grams per kilogram daily for endurance athletes. About two-thirds of the protein came from plant foods. Water intake was modest (about 1.113 liters per day), and the Kenyans actually tended to drink more tea than water on a daily basis (tea consumption was about 1.243 daily liters)."
Guilherme wrote:
Oh yeah, another benefit of Paleo is you'll never be bloated, indigested or get the toots again. Or the "fluffs" as you ladies call it.
I can concur on the first two, but not the latter, particularly a few hours after eating brussels sprouts. :)