Ray wrote:
I'm just saying what is in the rules. USATF has jurisdiction over any race offering prize money.
I guess you're talking about USATF rules, which are ignored by the vast majority of races. The vast majority of races aren't even aware that the USATF has rules, or even what the USATF is. USATF can make all the rules it wants, but it has no enforcement powers over races that are ignoring them.
Not that it will ever happen but: What if the winner has a fuel belt with several bottles of liquids, and pockets full of Gu's. And a Garmin on their wrist pacing them. Is it legal? So long as they brought it themsleves? It's still taking unapproved aid, isn't it?
And I can assure you that the vast majority of "elite" races in this country are sanctioned. Is the Podunk 5km with ribbons to the top 3 sanctioned? Probably not unless they wanted to take advantage of the insurance. Is every major race in the country sanctioned? From personal experience, I would guess 90-95%
wonderer of things wrote:
Not that it will ever happen but: What if the winner has a fuel belt with several bottles of liquids, and pockets full of Gu's. And a Garmin on their wrist pacing them. Is it legal? So long as they brought it themsleves? It's still taking unapproved aid, isn't it?
I believe the rule -- I'm not looking it up -- is that one is free to start the race with all of those things. One just can't get them on the course unless from an official spot available to all. It's not "unapproved aid."
As to the comment about HMers impeding marathoners, the point is that everyone in that situation is in the same boat. No individual advantage, or disadvantage.
I'm surprised that on a site in which posts explore the minutiae of so many running things this basic idea of the rules for, you know, actually running a race escape people.
Ray wrote:
And I can assure you that the vast majority of "elite" races in this country are sanctioned. Is the Podunk 5km with ribbons to the top 3 sanctioned? Probably not unless they wanted to take advantage of the insurance. Is every major race in the country sanctioned? From personal experience, I would guess 90-95%
I always love it when anonymous people with no credentials whatsoever tell me that they "can assure me" of something. Is that supposed to mean anything?
You can also get insurance through RRCA. That is not subject to USATF rules. You can also get private insurance.
Ray, you have no idea what you're talking about.
I can see that you post anonymously, however I do not and have never posted anonymously. I'll post my e mail here if that makes the process any easier for you. Many on this site know who I am. In addition, I was actively involved in looking at course certification and race sanctions for USATF in a number of capacities for many years. Am I an expert? No. Don't claim to be, but I believe that if you went to somebody who actually knew something about all levels of the sport, you'd find that a great number of people who bitch and moan on this site, have no idea what the hell they are talking about.
what a load of crap. If I cared to look I'm pretty sure I can find video or pics of elites in Major US and World marathons taking extra fluids outside of offical water stations. They all should be DQed? Take for instance the 2004 Boston Marathon where temps reached 89 degrees.I ran this and there where pleas from race officials to the general public to bring hoses and to offer water. Thankfully thousands complied. Are you telling me that not one person drank? Meanwhile how about Chicago a couple of years ago, if my fading memory serves they cancelled the race midway for lack of water. WTF this women ran a 3:02 which is a good time but certainly not a AR WR. The race director of this event should have used some good old fashioned common sense when this was violation? was reported and simply said thank you and awarded this women the victory she earned. I can tell you one thing I'll never ever run this race...idiots
Let's make this simple......who can name me more than 1 race in the top ten money races in the country that is not sanctioned? Who can name 1 of the top ten that is not sanctioned? anybody? anybody?
You are changing your assertion. Initially, you said that a race cannot award prize money if it is not sanctioned. You did not say "most of the top 10 money races are sanctioned." Two totally different points.
Ray, don't make me whore myself on you. I want too so bad, but I know I shouldn't!
Gee, sorry I don't write up to your standards. How about getting on your Iphone or Blackberry and bitch about your friends that write what many would consider nonsense.
That's crazy, right there!
1. "And in fact, any race offering prize money must be sanctioned by usatf."
2. "USATF has jurisdiction over any race offering prize money."
3. "Is every major race in the country sanctioned? From personal experience, I would guess 90-95%"
4. "who can name me more than 1 race in the top ten money races in the country that is not sanctioned?"
We started at "any race," then went to "every major race" and now we're at "top ten money races." Well done Ray, most top-flight NBA defenders can't backpedal this quickly.
Not changing my assertion at all. I am responding to those that said the vast majority of races don't have a sanction or know what usatf is. I'm clarifying my statement that elite races do know what usatf is and the majority of those races are sanctioned. I am also saying that the Amateur Sports Act gave USATF control over Road Racing and that every race that awards prize money is supposed to be sanctioned. It is as if Shittown, USA wanted to hold a golf tournament and get Tiger there, offering a major purse for the win. Unless it was PGA sanctioned Tiger can't play. Same concept is supposed to apply here. Not saying it does I'm just saying that is the rule.
I agree with you. Ray is probably wrong here.
"I am also saying that the Amateur Sports Act gave USATF control over Road Racing and that every race that awards prize money is supposed to be sanctioned." WRONG
"It is as if Shittown, USA wanted to hold a golf tournament and get Tiger there, offering a major purse for the win. Unless it was PGA sanctioned Tiger can't play." WRONG
Seriously Ray, give it up.
8800880088 wrote:
1. "And in fact, any race offering prize money must be sanctioned by usatf."
2. "USATF has jurisdiction over any race offering prize money."
3. "Is every major race in the country sanctioned? From personal experience, I would guess 90-95%"
4. "who can name me more than 1 race in the top ten money races in the country that is not sanctioned?"
We started at "any race," then went to "every major race" and now we're at "top ten money races." Well done Ray, most top-flight NBA defenders can't backpedal this quickly.
1) True
2) True
3) Probably true but I would need to see the official usatf sanction list.
4) According to the USATF and the pro circuit site I would say this is true. i.e They are all sanctioned.
I'm not sure why anybody has a problem with this. Could it be that this site has changed so much that people only come on here to complain? doesn't anybody come on here to be informed anymore?
8800880088 wrote:
http://www.pgatour.com/r/tiger.victoryroom.nontour/index.htmlSeriously Ray, give it up.
OK, maybe someone needs to explain it to you with a power point or in a classroom situation. Just like there are USATF sanctioned events that are not part of the Pro road Circuit, There are PGA SANCTIONED events that are not part of the PGA tour. It is really not that difficult.