My goal of a sub 15:00 5000m: I will not stop until I reach my goal

Do you really think that you could take 5 months off, gain 25 pounds, run for 2 weeks easy and then run within reach of 15:00? If so then maybe you should look into training harder to make the Olympic team, because I know of no one that could do that.

JCHOW wrote:

Do you really think that you could take 5 months off, gain 25 pounds, run for 2 weeks easy and then run within reach of 15:00? If so then maybe you should look into training harder to make the Olympic team, because I know of no one that could do that.

I don't think I could do that, no. But I know I would not waste letsrun.com's time with this thread until I had at least broken 16. You are so far away it's a little ridiculous.

Best of luck.

JCHOW wrote:

I am doing the things that I know work for me.

...

I am going to be doing a lot of 2k pace work when I start my indoor season, the reason being that the pace run for 2k helps give strength to running a 1500 and being able to finish strong, as well as giving legspeed for a 3k. Indoors will hopefully consist of 4 races, two 1500's and two 3ks.

I don't have a coach right now, I want to do my own thing because I know myself best and what works for me.

Think critically about this idea:

2k reps, I assume you will do 2, 3 or 4. These will need to be done at 8k-10k pace, since if they are done faster you will cook yourself by the 2nd rep. So this is LT training right away. I used to do 3-5 x 2k in 5:50-6:00 with a 1-lap jog as rest, to prepare for road and XC 10ks.

I would prefer 35-65 minute hard runs at about 10-20 secs/mile slower than all-out for the chosen distance. i.e. if you can race 10 miles in 55:00, then train it at 57-58:00.

I don't see how this is necessarily going to help your 1500 last laps, but LT runs (continuous) are good no matter what. I don't see how the 2k reps are going to help "legspeed for a 3k". As explained they will be done at 8k/10k pace, so that is not fast enough to help legspeed. I think you have your training methodologies mixed up. If you are pointing for a June race, base training should not include intervals and hill reps in December.

Also, I don't know why you are so focused on speed. You are running the 5k and trying to break 15:00. That is 72 a lap. Why the emphasis on 14-second 100s and sprinting and hills and drills? Especially right now?

A great book for you to read would be Run With the Best.

It focuses on the 5k especially the 14:30-level male. Which is what you are after.

You seem to be trying the "kitchen-sink" approach to training -- throw a bunch of workouts -- all the kinds you can think of -- into each week. This is not a scientific way.

slap some sense into you boy wrote:

JCHOW wrote:

Do you really think that you could take 5 months off, gain 25 pounds, run for 2 weeks easy and then run within reach of 15:00? If so then maybe you should look into training harder to make the Olympic team, because I know of no one that could do that.

I don't think I could do that, no. But I know I would not waste letsrun.com's time with this thread until I had at least broken 16. You are so far away it's a little ridiculous.

Best of luck.

Going on 4 pages now with several interested individuals seems like it is a waste of time to me too. We are sharing experience and ideas and allowing others to chime in, if they so choose, in order to reach our goals. We are looking for support and encouragement, thanks for yours.

They are are not 2k reps, a typical workout would be 400-600m reps at 2k race pace.

I am not focusing on speed at all right now, but strength. Hill work, especially longer hill repeats of longer than 45 seconds build strength and help with proper form.

For example:

Workout: 4 sets of 600, 400, rep rest of 1 minute, set rest of 2:30-3:00. The 600 will be run at 2k pace and the 400 at 1500 pace. The reason for this workout is to teach you to run a 2k pace 600 then run a 400 faster, all while staying relaxed. It is a fairly hard workout, and it will definitely help build strength.

Just out of curiosity, why should base training not include running hills? Running hills is one of the best ways to build strength up. Is base training not about building up an aerobic base and the strength you will need to survive until the championship races during your track season?

I really haven't run a serious 5k, and have never ran one on the track. I think I am about 8 months away from running close to 15:00 on the track.

You keep talking about strength? Do you mean "aerobic strength"?

The base phase is for developing your "mitochondrial power" (my words) -- the size and density of your mitochondria. Also increasing your capillarization -- to feed your muscles blood (and therefore oxygen and therefore hemoglobin) most abundantly and efficiently. Also to strengthen the walls of your heart. This is best done with a lot of volume. In general the more minutes you run each week, the better you will be.

Doing a bunch of 400 and 600m runs uphill at 1500m effort will be counterproductive to building up the volume. The hill reps are reserved for a "hill phase" that is done after base training and before the interval phase. That is Lydiard 101.

Sure, you can do some kind of hill work over your 10-20 week base phase. Maybe once-per-week will not be a detriment, but that is not the place for it.

JCHOW wrote:

I really haven't run a serious 5k, and have never ran one on the track. I think I am about 8 months away from running close to 15:00 on the track.

Hate to rain on your parde, but it's time to inject some realism JCHOW. You shouldn't be embarking on form drills or intervals or speed work when you are horribly out of shape. Your focus should be on ramping up your mileage AND building endurance. Give yourself 6 months to reach 70-80 miles a week. When you can handle that type of mileage, then start injecting speed work, etc.

As for you breaking 15 min in a 5K, that's a fantasy bro. Why not go a to track and do a 5K time trial. Forget about entering a race for now. Get your baseline time result, then post it on the board and continue with your training. Are you capable of breaking 18 mins for 5K now? I think you're 1 year from breaking 16 mins in a 5K (if ever), let alone 15 mins.

This is one of the reasons letsrun.com drives me insane. You came into this thread and chose to bring down a fellow runner instead of building him up or giving him encouraging advice. What is your name so we can verify your times. I am coming back off a 6 year hiatus from running and have gained thirty pounds. Is it ridiculous to set lofty goals? One of the reasons no one likes our sport is because of jerks like you who think your better than everyone else.

I'm rooting for these two guys to break 15 and will continue to follow this post until they do.

I gave him advice, re-read the part where I suggested he increase his mileage for 6 months. Sometimes the truth hurts. Nothing wrong with lofty goals, but a sub 15 min 5K is a fantasy. Sorry, if I burst your bubble, Mr. 30lbs overweight guy.

JCHOW, I wish you good luck. Announcing that you're going to break 15 mins is a little foolish at this point. Ase somebody else already said, let's try breaking 16 mins first.

No, you've got it all wrong, that isn't a hill workout at all, it's a track workout. I may be slow right now but I'm not an idiot.

Hill workout:

4-6 x 1:00 hills

15-20 minute tempo

4-6 x 1:00 hills

This hill workout is focusing on the tempo, with the first set of hills to get a little lactic acid in your legs, and the tempo to be run with you being a little tired, and the last set of hills to push through fatigue.

I'm not horribly out of shape though, I am up to about 40 miles a week and have lost 5 pounds, ran a 10 minute pickup 2 weeks ago and ran 17:19 for 3 miles with the first 2 miles around 11:00 You should always do form drills before workouts, it helps loosen you up and there aren't any detriments to doing form drills. I am not doing any speed work at all right now, just strides before workouts. Intervals are one of the best ways to lose weight, or am I wrong?

Forgot to update about my run last night with all the chirping going on.

Did an easy half hour run, didn't feel fatigued from the workout the day before.

JCHOW

Are you Asian by any chance?

Take a year to get your milage up and interject a fartlek or hard run once a week. Throw in some hill work outs. Then let me know how your doing. I dont want to know about your every day runs, its boring.

Intervals are great to sharpen speed and working on your kick AFTER you have at least 2 months worth of 70 mile weeks. Your focus should be on MILEAGE. You will lose your extra weight over a period of weeks and months. Congrats on your 40 mile weeks, just keep building your mileage gradually. Assuming that based on a 5 mile per week increase, you will be hitting 60 miles per week by Thanksgiving?

JCHOW, don't let the detractors get to you. There will always be doubters. So long as you are not one then it does not matter, you said yourself that you are doing what you know works for you. You have training partners that just did what you are wanting to do, so it is not like you don't have good solid examples right there with you.

Tonight I ran a three mile warm up and then did 7xmile in 5:38. I was taking 3 minutes between each and I finished it off with an easy two mile jog. I felt wobbly tonight for some reason, just not crisp. It may have been the increase in work due to the race showing me that I was ahead of where I thought I was. May have just been one of those days.

The intervals I am doing are not short intervals though, I am doing no shorter than 3 minute repeats right now. In a perfect world I will be at 70 mile weeks consistently by December, which I know my body can handle with ease and proper maintenance.

From here on out I will not reply to those that are not with me in my (and everyone else's) goal.

I am so confused how everyone on here suddenly knows the history and current capabilities for the OP when he has merely shared a goal and his first few weeks of running after some time off. He's getting advice like its his first season running or he is 15 years old and trying to double his mileage and take 2 minutes off of his PR.

For the sake of something constructive to do when I come to this Godforsaken site, I will try to jump into this thread with similar goals. For what it's worth, over the past three years I have consistently run between 15:30 and 16 minutes off of lax training that only seldom consisted of tempo work, but rarely anything faster. Three weeks ago I relocated myself in hopes of avoiding the pitfalls of cold snowy winters and am currently in building phase I.

Today I ran 40 minutes easy, completing my first 7 days straight of running in like, I don't know, three months.

Hey, I was happy with it. :-)