Why Does Oklahoma State and Alabama Recruit Foreigners?

Great Post.

I do not understand why so many people get upset over foreign athletes in the NCAA. Is it honestly that you are just that upset someone is beating you or taking your spot? If your that upset about it just go out and run more and get better. They are human beings just like all of us. Yes they may have more talent or train harder, but if your that upset about it go and do something about it. Many of you do not realize how hard it is for a smaller Div 1 school to recruit top talent? Is it possible? Yes, just look at German Fernandez and some other talented runners that have gone to smaller schools. But the problem is most studs wanna go to the big schools. I don't care what some of you think, because just putting in more effort doesn't work. They still want to Oregon or Stanford or such. Where as the are tons of faster, harder working foreigners who are grateful for the chance to come and run in the U.S. Why wouldn't you take one of these. They are typically faster than what any smaller school could get in the U.S. Im not saying that these bigger schools are bad, just that for some schools it is almost impossible to get a solid successfull American runner even with a great coach and school.

Finally people are posting using their positive brain side.

Lets put it like this. Coaches would be happy with imposing a limit on international athletes, only if NCAA makes an NFL alike draft.....where smaller teams have a chance to get studs out of high schools.

OSU and Alabama are not even getting close to "buying" a championship the way Oregon does it.

Wait A Minute wrote:

Many of you do not realize how hard it is for a smaller Div 1 school to recruit top talent? Is it possible? Yes, just look at German Fernandez and some other talented runners that have gone to smaller schools. But the problem is most studs wanna go to the big schools.

WTF??? Oklahoma State is now considered a small D-I school? It's hard to get talent to go there? Once again. WTF???

Dear prospective high school student (presumed on my part, given grammar levels):

I am glad to see your interest in Oklahoma State University. Given the nature of your argument and mismatched verb tenses, I would assume you place little emphasis on academics. Don’t worry though; you’ll fit right in at Oklahoma State University, a state-funded school renowned for its high acceptance rate and affordability. Your concerns over the coaching situation at Oklahoma State University, while tenuous, are legitimate misunderstandings often made.

Those concerned with high proportions of foreigners on XC rosters often fall into two categories:

- Those who feel the coach is disregarding American runners when giving resources to foreigners.

- Those who feel the coach is simply “buying” a title-contending team, rather than earning it with hard work and development of runners.

These are both valid problems within the NCAA in numerous instances, but fear not: Okstate does not fall into either category. Dave Smith has always developed unheralded American runners. In fact, those who have followed the sport for a number of years before the “german-fernandez-juggernaut-hype-machine” can remember the Cowboys as a blue-collar team, perennially under ranked. Dave Smith developed guys like David Jankowski from 9:30 HS 2milers into 28:xx 10k runners and All-Americans. Even fan-favorite Ryan Vail never made it to footlocker nationals in high school. The 2007 XC roster for OSU had zero runners who had broken 9:00 for 2 miles in high school. Going into the season they were ranked 10th. They finished 3rd (without German Fernandez!). Crazy, I know. No one concerned over lack of development and opportunities for American runners need worry about Okstate. And despite what some may say, having these concerns does not make you xenophobic, bigoted, or narrow-minded. Just misinformed.

Jankowski always bombed nationals... he runs a 14.08 and pr's at a "road race" after a half year out of Okie state at the U.S. national championships, Smith never could get Jankowski to run well when it mattered. Look at their past track season, so many guys bombed at regionals...

p.s. they finished 3rd at xc with:

-1 kenyan who is 28/29 years old

-2 great britain athletes (both world xc competitoors)

-1 canadian junior xc champ in high school

- though, they did have Vail and Jankowski. Both freakish talents(not that it's bad)

So your point about there being zero sub 9- 2 mile guys is pretty naive.

I think you're a little misinformed.

would it help to clarify that neither the two athletes from great britain nor the Canadian (all the same age as American HSers) broke the equivalent of 9:00 for 2 miles in high school either? No, but they are foreign, so must automatically be better, right? I think all three ran in the 8:20-30 range for 3000m in high school.

Not exactly recruiting all-stars.

good points wrote:

... Vail and Jankowski. Both freakish talents(not that it's bad)

Freakish talents? Vail and Jankowski??

This one statement, in and of itself, disqualifies you as someone to be taken seriously on any running related topic, no make that ANY topic, anytime, anywhere for at least the next 7.6 billion years.

Please write back when your single brain cell has divided, giving it someone to talk to.

A draft?!? STUDENT-athlete bro.. its not all about athletics.. alot of runners wont do anything besides local road races after college, despite dreams.. and smaller schools getting studs what about Nick Symmonds D3 school, Scotty Baughs D2 school, Sam Vasquez 4:01 miler in HS ended up at NAIA.. I mean the smaller schools get the people if they can offer the person what they need.. A draft idea is just REDICULOUS!!Oregon doesnt need to buy a championship though.. anybody who would have a chance at making the team would probably go there.. it is a school glorified to distance running because of its background..

Common Sense 101 wrote:

Finally people are posting using their positive brain side.

Lets put it like this. Coaches would be happy with imposing a limit on international athletes, only if NCAA makes an NFL alike draft.....where smaller teams have a chance to get studs out of high schools.

OSU and Alabama are not even getting close to "buying" a championship the way Oregon does it.

Most in this discussion fails to realize that there are many factors that affect performance outside of coaching. There is not a linear relationship between coaching and success.

Bovice wrote:

Most in this discussion fails to realize that there are many factors that affect performance outside of coaching. There is not a linear relationship between coaching and success.

Fails to realize? Perhaps you could try "fails to explicitly acknowledge".

For one thing 'discussions' do not 'realize' anything. People do. Or sometimes fail to.

For another, of the people in this discussion it appears unknowable what percentage realize that there are many factors that affect performance outside of coaching. The fact that most have not discussed this topic does not in any way indicate as such.

So, try again. Perhaps something like:

"There are many factors that affect performance outside of coaching. Of course, this does not really seem to be the topic of this thread so it is not at all clear why I am saying this. And since I am saying things that on the face of them appear irrelevant to the discussion at hand let me just add 'Free nuclear power for all! Energy is a right, not a privilege!!'

Or better yet, just avoid posting altogether.

Another dumb thread. We do not need to do racial profiling or limitations for our NCAA sports. That's not what the NCAA stands for. That's not what American universities stand for. That's not what the USA stands for...

NCAA Mission Statement

Core Ideology

The NCAA's core ideology consists of two notions: core purpose - the organization's reason for being - and core values - essential and enduring principles that guide an organization.

Core Purpose

Our purpose is to govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount.

Core Values

The Association - through its member institutions, conferences and national office staff - shares a belief in and commitment to:

* The collegiate model of athletics in which students participate as an avocation, balancing their academic, social and athletics experiences.

* The highest levels of integrity and sportsmanship.

* The pursuit of excellence in both academics and athletics.

*The supporting role that intercollegiate athletics plays in the higher education mission and in enhancing the sense of community and strengthening the identity of member institutions.

* An inclusive culture that fosters equitable participation for student-athletes and career opportunities for coaches and administrators from diverse backgrounds (sorry letsrun, I know this statement pisses you off).

*Respect for institutional autonomy and philosophical differences (hmmm?? sounds good to me..).

* Presidential leadership of intercollegiate athletics at the campus, conference and national levels.

There is nothing "common" or sensible about your comment.First, all schools have a shot in recruiting; if they did not Oregon would have gotten GF.Second, Oregon does not recruit a group at foreigners.They did not buy a title.Rupp's parents paid 95k for his career.

Common Sense 101 wrote:

Finally people are posting using their positive brain side.

Lets put it like this. Coaches would be happy with imposing a limit on international athletes, only if NCAA makes an NFL alike draft.....where smaller teams have a chance to get studs out of high schools.

OSU and Alabama are not even getting close to "buying" a championship the way Oregon does it.

Q.

What's the difference between Oregon recruiting Rupp, Kiptoo, McNamara, etc, and Alabama recruiting Kenyans?

A.

Alabama doesn't break the rules to do it.

The world has changed (much smaller today than just 10 years ago) and there are plenty of foreign athletes all over NCAA, NAIA and JC programs - in all sports (i.e, Basketball, Tennis, Swimming, XC, T&F, etc....) So relax and enjoy your sport!!!!!

DickGregory wrote:

I remember when this subject came up a few years ago and the concensus was that you cannot deny a qualified person, foreign or not, admission into a state University. At that point, do you (in America) say that you will not provide opportunity to someone that wants to come here and compete by giving them funding. How un-American would that be?

Yes ever since WW2, America has sent Trillions to foreign countries to rebuild, develop etc.

So of course, we should offer a free education to every qualified runner in the world.

The fact is, coaches do this because they want to make success for themselves, period.

There is no reciprocal situation available anywhere in the world for the displaced home grown athletes in the USA to avail themselves of.

Yes it is. If academically accepted american students or student athletes can go to bunch of European universities for free (top 500) in the world.

Most of European education system is free.

Don t even want to mention the similar opportunities talented american students have if they want to go and study abroad on scholarships.

So, it is decided. Indannapolis will host the International Collegiate Athletics Association (ICAA) Cross Country championships in a few months. Anyone interested in watching a bunch of foreign athletes (who are temporarily wearing Okie State and Alabama singlets), will have an opportunity to do just that. And after the race, unnamed head coaches will pat themselves on the back about what a fantastic job they did and how genius they are as coaches. A few years down the road, no one will remember who was the champions, and there will be very few remaining collegiate XC teams becaue there will no longer be any fans of the sport. Hell, every one of those top foreigners will have long since departed to compete for their real countries elsewhere, and Letrunners will be bitching that there aren't any good American runners. And if you really want to watch good runners, why watch a bunch of collegiate foreigners when you can turn on the TV and watch the professional foreigners race in the big time. End of thread.

They recruit foreigners because the want to win and do well in competitions. I got news buddy America is the land of opportunity all colleges are full of foreigners many on scholarship for all kinds of reasons. We are the center of knowledge for the world and that's pretty important. Our colleges are supposed to be diverse. BTW Oklahoma State is hardly a cesspool of a program there is a good chance they will vie for the national championship this year.