Evan Jager is Amazing - Has the US ever had a 20-year old run 13:22?

No, they do it backwards here, in the USA

I'm not disagreeing with your comments, except that German has indicated that the pressure wears on him. Just like it wore on Rupp for years. Even IF (big if) German doesn't check message boards like many elites do occassionaly to see whats being said, he'll hear about it from friends and teammates. And despite it only being 15 rabid fans, they make a lot of noise and often dominate the front page of the message board and stir up a lot of crap. And other media sources with less insight will see that crap without proper perspective. I believe it's summed up in Rupp's quote on the front page of letsrun today.

just to point out that Jager is not done for the season. Give him a shot in Europe and maybe he'll run 13:16. But Fernandez will still run that at 19.

Remember the 3 second difference came in the last lap. kicking 54 seconds for the final 400.

Thats the difference between jager and fernandez right now.

Jager is not a year older that German. He 20 months older almost to the day. That is almost two years. German could have been a HS senior this year. Can you image if he would have run his 13:25 as a HS senior. There are many many HS seniors that graduated this year that are older than German. He will improve more that three seconds in the next 20 months. Then compare him to Jager.

Retired Steepler wrote:

rojo wrote:

German's 13:25 at age 18 is pretty good as well.

Seriously? "Pretty good as well"? What's with you and your brother? No matter who's doing well, you guys love to play it down. The only reason you guys aren't picking on Rupp right now is because he is just unstoppable in America. "Pretty good," huh? The best 5k ever for an American junior. The guy is 18 years old and ran 13:25. "Pretty good as well"?

chill out mr. serious

yoiw wrote:

They do the dates and months backward in the international system. That is actually, march and november.

hahahaha, classic line

Who does days and months backwards??? The international system (that most countries use), or that nation un too themselves that has the month first??

come on..... lots of countries v one country. only one country writes their date backward

No big deal here, but I'm more impressed with the 13:22 because it somehow came from somebody who is not German Fernanez... I am impressed by the kid, but if we don't have jackasses all over the place stop kissing his ass then I'll truly begin to resent him... stop calling everything bad that anyone else does!!!

People that are not GF can have great races... I know some of you find that hard to believe, but trust me... I know its true... if it weren't, he'd be the US champ... Congrats to him... but people need to start SUPPORTING AMERICANS and stop acting like we're competing against ourselves... support everyone in the USA jersey until our boys are coming in 1-2-3 at worlds... then pick your rivals within the country... damn... stupid, stupid people...

No bud wrote:

No big deal here, but I'm more impressed with the 13:22 because it somehow came from somebody who is not German Fernanez... I am impressed by the kid, but if we don't have jackasses all over the place stop kissing his ass then I'll truly begin to resent him... stop calling everything bad that anyone else does!!!

People that are not GF can have great races... I know some of you find that hard to believe, but trust me... I know its true... if it weren't, he'd be the US champ... Congrats to him... but people need to start SUPPORTING AMERICANS and stop acting like we're competing against ourselves... support everyone in the USA jersey until our boys are coming in 1-2-3 at worlds... then pick your rivals within the country... damn... stupid, stupid people...

I agree with almost all of this. I think people can have favorites and that makes watching non-international races more fun. If you are sitting watching USA's and you don't care who wins, its not as exciting. Personally, before either of them were in college, I was a Wisco fan, so I was rooting for Teg, Solinsky, Jager, but like you said, it doesnt mean I wanted guys like German to run slow. I like Lomong and Manzano, but I was rooting for Lomong to get the win b/c Im from NY. But when there are 3-4 spots on the world team, they are competing against each other, for a shot at being on the US team that competes against the world. You can root for a few, have favorites, enjoy a friendly rivalry and still be supportive of the US team.

I agree that everytime someone runs well, it is ridiculous that someone always has to cite somebody that bid it faster, younger, or better. Will German be faster at 20 than Jager was this week? Probably (of course it isnt a deffinate, many runners get injured like Rebeka Noble and have rough seasons like Webb and Goucher) Either way, Jager was faster THIS year, and the 20 year old Fernandez can not run at the 2009 World Champs.

off point but...

Andrew Bumbalough from Georgetown was back in 20th... He was a HS phenom but not an also ran. Is he hurt?

Coming out of H.S. I thought Bumbalough would be a 5k/10k guy but he seems to have had the greatest sucess in college in 1500-3000. He's had some injuries, too. Not sure what the whole deal is.

13:20 at age 20 is phenomenal for US distance.. Just a shame that on the international level this is probably mediocre (but decent still)..

There are a few things that have ocurred over the past 5 or so years that indicate US distance running is getting better. For example, MUCH more depth - more guys running in the 13:teens and twenties.

But also, having more young guys with breakthrough times (ie German, Evan) is good for US distance -- so my question is - How can we develop more young talented runners with the goal of running top-level performances, like Jager? He is certainly a special case, skipping NCAA running and all.. Would he be just as fast if he ran for Oregon? Or if Shumacher stayed in Wisconsin? Or does it make more sense to train with professionals and compete on a higher level...

13:22.77 Dathan Ritz

I'm just glad that lately we can watch the US Trials or Championships and feel like the guys running are decent. Looking at the 5k and 10k field it was nice to see so many talented runners, and for the most part they weren't imports for from other lands. They were honest to god distance runners from the USA.

No bud wrote:

No big deal here, but I'm more impressed with the 13:22 because it somehow came from somebody who is not German Fernanez... I am impressed by the kid, but if we don't have jackasses all over the place stop kissing his ass then I'll truly begin to resent him... stop calling everything bad that anyone else does!!!

People that are not GF can have great races... I know some of you find that hard to believe, but trust me... I know its true... if it weren't, he'd be the US champ... Congrats to him... but people need to start SUPPORTING AMERICANS and stop acting like we're competing against ourselves... support everyone in the USA jersey until our boys are coming in 1-2-3 at worlds... then pick your rivals within the country... damn... stupid, stupid people...

I agree. Great to have your favorites, but no need to try and tear others down (especially by something like age differential) when your favorite gets bested. Just deal with it and root for them again next time.

The age thing is silly, pleny of guys hit marks when they are young that they can't beat for years, or possibly only slightly improve upon. I'm not wishing this on German, but some of you might be setting him up for disaster when he has his year that shows no improvement. And it will happen it's just a matter of when.

Germans course record smashing in high school and his insane solo doubles in the 1600 & 3200 as well as his two mile record were all indicators that he was going to run under 13:30 very quickly. But really that's about where they indicated, under 13:30, not under 13:20.

I think the reason people are impressed by Jager right now is that he came out of high school (just 2 years ago) and couldn't run a single 3200 faster than German could do alone and while doubling. In fact he was over 15 seconds slower for 3200/2 mile and now here he is running at a much higher level. And we don't know how fast he could have gone. Unlike German he never lost contact when the pace picked up. He was always ready to move with it and only got dropped because those guys were able to get down to :53 on the last lap. Watching him react to the stiff arm from Teg clearly showed the difference in experience. Anyone who has run a fast 5K and is hurting with 800 to go knows how hard it is to summon up a big kick when you just want to be done. Jager had committed to a kick and Teg silenced it about 15 meters after it started. Right where Yoder-Begley said she almost gave up but then changed her mind and it made all the difference. We don't know that he would have beaten the 2 in front of him, but we do know that when confidence turns to doubt the chances decrease dramatically.

There is a huge difference between Professional and collegiate training.

But it comes down to numbers... if we don't have but one or two decent runners then ALL hopes are pinned on them. If we cna continue to see more decent, albeit not WC runners coming out of college, at least we can hope that out of X number of runners, Y will develop further and possibly do something on the world stage.

There for awhile all we had was Todd Williams and BK.

jabroniii wrote:

There is a huge difference between Professional and collegiate training.

Meaning?

Their is a huge difference between colletiates training at x program vs y program. Their is a huge difference between professional training with x coach and y coach.

Your statement is way too broad. Guys at sophisticated collegiate programs have it pretty much as good as it gets, plus they have a true team (meaning one that can aim for conference and national championships and titles) to train for and motivate them vs. training for pretty much nothing but yourself as a professional. Being part of that college team is not only fun, it's a strong sense of importance and belonging for a young runner. Sense of purpose.

This is why you see a ton of kids graduating, going professional and falling off the face of the earth. It's a whole different motivation waking up in the morning and having to workout with nothing that you can sink your teeth into coming your way. 80% of the guys you measured yourself against have all quit the sport or simply are just not going to be on your racing plan anymore. You show up to a race and run 13:27 as a post collegiate and it might as well be 13:18 or 13:39. It's all kind of a grey area of success with the exception that you are really progressing forward or are making national teams. This situations are few and far between for professional runners.

To me that makes Jagers accomplishment as a 20 year old even more impressive. Not something that would happen for most college sophomores.

face it wrote:

To me that makes Jagers accomplishment as a 20 year old even more impressive. Not something that would happen for most college sophomores.

Um, I think I missed your point. It(13:22, 3:54) wouldn't "happen for most [20 y.o.] college sophs", but it did happen for a 20 y.o. pro training with 2 of the very best 5k prospects in US history, so..... it makes it MORE impressive that Jager did it the way he did it (as a pro), as opposed to if he done it as a college runner ???

His accomplishments are amazing in any environment, but I think they were more likely to occur with him training as a pro, than as a college runner, and you seem to suggest that also (maybe you didn't mean to, but you did). Yes, being a pro or college runner has many different forms, but his pro runner environment surpasses just about any college running environment, where college runners DO have more pressure to win certain meets, and run when injured, and do NOT have the resources and training partners that Schumacher's group does have. There are exceptions, but German has a) less resources b) less superstar training partners c) more pressure to race in certain meets and do certain doubles possibly. The pro running environment, unless you decide to go back to your hometown and train with your HS coach, and even possibly then, seems to offer more advantages than disadvantages compared to the college running experience.