Wejo the Doper (LetsRun.com in the NY Times)

Agree with doctor S. and with TxRG's father.

But one must not be afraid of the Doping can of worms.

Otherwise there should be outright outrage that painkillers and antiinflammatory products appear in gift packages at major races.

As the father of toxicology would say:

German: Alle Ding sind Gift, und nichts ohn Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist.

"All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

Beyond Citius, Altius, Fortius we also need to reward, in the spirit of sports brotherhood:

Greater Awareness,

Greater Honesty,

Greater Fairness.

Its not about being a goody two shoes. The cold war is over. We need to push this from the Base of Athletics id est: WE The Runners.

Like I said before, the difference is that carbohydrates are necessary to simply function, to sustain life. That's the difference between caffeine and food.

I'm open to debate on this, but calling a person a "virginal" purist, as a previous poster so eloquently put it, is silly. That goes nowhere.

And I agree that there's a legal line that has to be upheld. But still, using a known performance enhancing substance, legal or not, violates the spirit of the law. And I find it extremely hypocritical of Wejo to be sooo hard on dopers when he himself knowingly used a PED. His justification is even the same as every other doper ("Everybody does it, it's not harmful, blah blah blah").

Last season I decided to use caffeine for my final 5k of the season. I'd already run some decent times that year, had read a lot of the debate on caffeine, and was curious how I would feel racing on it. I pr'd from 15:16 to 15:04 with a huge negative split and a 66 last lap. I'm not a sprinter (55 quarter speed), but went through the first 200m of that final lap in 32 and slowed the final 200m only because I dropped my opponent. I felt a m a z i n g through the entire race, and felt so fresh in that final mile.

If I'm not talented enough to approach 15:00 on my own work and training, why should I feel good about using a drug to get me there? Well, I don't. No amount of justification can erase the fact that I simply was not good enough to run that fast on my own.

All this is about running ad if "on your own."

The point is you are in a race.

What would your feelings have been like if you knew that your opponent was also on caffeine?

What if he beat you instead of you beating him?

Typical NY Times pap. Things have gotten really desperate if a guy cant have his coffee without some nebish looking over his shoulder to audit him. MYOB! Go do some training for a change.

the point could be wrote:

All this is about running ad if "on your own."

The point is you are in a race.

What would your feelings have been like if you knew that your opponent was also on caffeine?

What if he beat you instead of you beating him?

That's the entire rationalization for doping. We know people are doing it. We know they're going to win races. So we should dope too.

I don't care if my opponent is using caffeine or not, all I can and should do is push my body to its limits, without the aid of PEDs. Everything else is out of my control.

For whats its worth. Almost 100% of cyclists cary up to 4-5 caffeine pills in their jersey pockets during a given race. Often combining the caffeine pills with sudafed. I had teammate pro cyclist who would have ~800mg of caffein going through him for the last hour of 5 hour race. In those longer events it was absolutely performance boosting. For time trials most riders to 2 caffeine pills while warming up.

People are always going to push the limits of whats legal when their livelihood is at stake.

Right, how much of your performance was you and how much was the caffeine or [insert ANY other PED here]? I've never wondered, "how good would I have been without all those carbohydrates or all that vitamin B or all that iron or etc.?" I eat food and nutrients to function, not to enhance performance above and beyond what's naturally possible. I'd also think downing a steak an hour before a race would be more of a hindrance than an aid.

I only read the first two pages of this, so if I'm repeating someone, I'm sorry.

PEDs aren't usually aren't banned just for being PEDs. They're banned because they're controlled substances, have negative side effects, or aren't available to the general public, giving those with access an unfair advantage.

Thats why things like creatine, BCAAs, and caffeine are allowed.

Ok, I read the rest. You can call Wejo a doper if you want. I think its a strong word and isn't warranted, but you're entitled to your opinion. To whoever called him a cheater though, thats totally uncalled for. Its not cheating if it isn't against the rules.

Whoever has a problem with drinking coffee before a race is just a raging idiot out of control

... so this morning my wife brings me a cup of coffee in bed, and i've got this thread in my mind, and about two hours later i had kids athletics... This coffee in the morning thing, it is a bit of a cultural habit...

Within their cultural use, how many people feel like they have overdosed on coffee? This should be a separate thread maybe...

haha well said....that should pretty much end the thread.

toasty mcf***face wrote:

Whoever has a problem with drinking coffee before a race is just a raging idiot out of control

surprised me wrote:

I would like to hear what you think is the world of difference. Availability?

Either way you're using a something specifically for performance boosting purposes. If you justify caffeine to yourself because it's legal, you should be able to do the same for any other substance that is not specifically banned.

i didn't read through the thread after this to see if anyone continues to argue with your utter retardedness, but you are an utter retard if you're arguing that drinking coffee is in any way (legally or illegally) cheating.

don't pretend that your cute little argument holds any water at all.

people carbo-load specifically for performance enhancement. they might even eat pankcakes the morning of their race! maybe a little gatorade too. so you are saying all of that is cheating.

if you don't want anything at all that enhances performance, then everyone would have to stick to an identical "competitors" diet of maybe bread, water, fruit, vegetables, a little meat, and milk. they should all eat it at the same time and in the same amounts too.

great plan you monstrous f***ing douchebag.

neanderthal dream wrote:

If I'm not talented enough to approach 15:00 on my own work and training, why should I feel good about using a drug to get me there? Well, I don't. No amount of justification can erase the fact that I simply was not good enough to run that fast on my own.

(1) if you're not talented enough to 15min, you're slow

(2) if you also are really saying that caffeine should be illegal, you are terrible.

(3) where to morons like you come from?

*...to APPROACH 15min...*

exactly and these morans argue that we need food to survive. We don't need a carbo load to survive if that helps certain individuals run faster the day before a marathon. Some people maybe don't respond to a carbo load just as some people don't like how coffee makes them feel. So you use training to experiment and coffee is just part of the training diet, just like morning toast and you don't need either of them to survive but they both help me feel better when I go to run. I really hope you're not serious.

This pretty well speaks for (and refutes) itself.

midwestern wrote:

haha well said....that should pretty much end the thread.

toasty mcf***face wrote:

Whoever has a problem with drinking coffee before a race is just a raging idiot out of control

Agreed! This whole thing seems like a manufactured, contrived controversy.

OldXCguy wrote:

Agreed! This whole thing seems like a manufactured, contrived controversy.

It depends on who started the thread.