Your opinion on Homeschooling?

EZ10Miler wrote:

I still wonder about socialization. I can't imagine how you could come close to being able to meet the varied number of people as I did in HS.

Yeah, Abe Lincoln used to worry about that too.

Booyahstein wrote:

Um... seems to me that the homeschool crowd has taken your advice... Just sayin'...

No, what home-school parents do (in general) is provide their kids a crappy "education", then when the kids hit 5th-6th grade (in my experience), they realize how ill-prepared they are to cover the vast range of subjects that kids need to grasp to compete in higher education, and try to re-integrate the kids into the public schools. My experience is that these kids are 2-3 years behind peers academically at this point, and frequently socially maladjusted. The school system is then responsible for providing high-cost remedial educational opportunities for these children at the expense of the already strapped public school system. There are exceptions, but those rare successfully educated home-schooled children are products of unique situations. They are not the norm.

Joie de vivre wrote:

You might want to rethink your nick...

Booyahstein wrote:

You might want to rethink your nick...

No, I think I'll keep this one.

Joie de vivre wrote:

No, what home-school parents do (in general) is provide their kids a crappy "education",

There are exceptions, but those rare successfully educated home-schooled children are products of unique situations. They are not the norm.

Okay: I took this at face value but, as a Reaganomanic, I sought to "trust but verify, so I popped "homeschool statistics" into Google, and checked the first two links.

Here is what I found:

From a 1997 study of 5,402 homeschool students entitled "Strengths of Their Own: Home Schoolers Across America":

Among 8th graders, homeschoolers, on the average, outperformed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects. Students homeschooled two or more years scored between 86th and 92nd percentile.

Neither race nor money spend made any difference.

The second hit notes that The National Center for Education found that parents who home school had higher levels of education. The average income of homeschool families vs. non-homeschool families were the same (probably because only one parent works).

So, large studies seem to contradict your observations.

Some other interesting findings (from other Google hits):

92 percent of superintendents believe that home learners are emotionally unstable and deprived of proper social development. (How would they know?)

"Many teachers also believe that successful home instruction by uncredentialed parents undermines their expertise and jeopardizes their jobs."

Here's a good one:

Standardized test results for 16,000 (!) home educated children, grades K-12, were analyzed in 1994 by researcher Dr. Brian Ray. He found the nationwide grand mean in reading for homeschoolers was at the 79th percentile; for language and math, the 73rd percentile.

54.7% of homeschoolers achieved individual scores in the top quarter of the population, more than double the number of conventional school students who score in the top quarter.

And: "The 2219 students reporting their homeschool status on the SAT in 1999 scored an average of 1083 (verbal 548, math 535), 67 points above the national average of 1016. In 2004 the 7858 homeschool students taking the ACT scored an average of 22.6, compared to the national average of 20.9."

Wow. And I hear they're pretty good at Spelling and Geography Bees, too!

Hunh wrote:

Okay: I took this at face value but, as a Reaganomanic, I sought to "trust but verify, so I popped "homeschool statistics" into Google, and checked the first two links.

Ah, another scholarly cut and paste job by Letsrun's best and brightest (educated or not).

What I am wondering about your 10-year-old stats is, who sponsored the study? Reeks of home-school association if you ask me. What standardized tests are they talking about (if not ACT), administered under what conditions? Let me guess, a "standardized" test developed and administered by the local home-school association.

The income comparison makes no sense, so I would need to see the data.

In addition, these studies couldn't possibly address the high rate of movement between home-school and public school. Very few kids are purely homeschooled by a single parent. So again, your ability to copy and paste snippets to support your argument is cute, but weak.

Your comment about superintendents also makes no sense. Of course they would know, they have most likely worked as teachers and principals before becoming superintendents and have seen the lacking social skills and discipline problems in home-schooled kids for themselves and reported as much in the survey.

I'm sorry, but if you're going to rely on Google to live your life on this message board, please understand the limitations. Most reputable, current studies in education, the sciences(global warming), etc. will not be available on Google. You don't strike me as someone with a college education. Home-schooled perhaps? Or just one of those lame inner city religious schools?

Joie de vivre wrote:

You don't strike me as someone with a college education. Home-schooled perhaps? Or just one of those lame inner city religious schools?

Wow. Bitter much?

You discount 10-year old studies? You think that as wealthier, secular families abandon failed public schools that home schooled kids are getting...dumber?

You discount recent ACT and SAT scores?

Uh, okay. You go with that.

I challenge you to cute cut/paste your more recent studies that contradict the findings, showing that home schooled kids underperform others.

Go ahead. I double-dog dare you!

Joie de vivre wrote:

Most reputable, current studies in education, the sciences(global warming), etc. will not be available on Google.

When I use Google I often get links to databases that house peer-reviewed journals such as Science Direct, JSTOR, or Springer Link. If these aren't the most reputable or current studies, then what are?

BTW, the questions you have for Hunh could be answered using Google.

[quote]Hunh wrote:

Wow. Bitter much? [quote]

Not bitter at all. Just stating that your arguments lack scholarly rigor.

[quote]You discount 10-year old studies? [quote]

I didn't say I discounted it, I said it was old, implying that it may contain information that has been refuted by more current, more reliable data. Happens quite often. Ten years is a long time in the world of education.

[quote]You discount recent ACT and SAT scores?[quote]

Not all the tests your snippets referred to were SAT/ACT scores. I was referring to the other "standardized tests" that were referenced.

[quote]I challenge you to cute cut/paste your more recent studies that contradict the findings, showing that home schooled kids underperform others.[quote]

That's the problem that I referred to. The more recent, more reliable sources for this information are not readily available to cut-n-paste. One actually needs to subscribe to a reputable journal or on-line service recognized by the field to get this information. Unlike with Google, it typically takes more than three minutes to pull it together, but in the end, you have data you can trust.

As much as I would love to take on your dare, I just don't have the time you have to hang out on Letsrun 24/7, nor do I want to. I responded on this thread with my opinion based on my experiences. Feel free to look up some real data yourself. I'm not sure you have the ability to distinguish a reliable research article from something out of Newsweek, but give it a shot.

not Hunh wrote:

When I use Google I often get links to databases that house peer-reviewed journals such as Science Direct, JSTOR, or Springer Link. If these aren't the most reputable or current studies, then what are?

Mr. and Mrs. Huhn, if you are not paying for the service, either through a subscription to the journal, or through tuition dollars at your local university, then it's unlikely you are getting current research.

Joie de vivre wrote:

As much as I would love to take on your dare, I just don't have the time you have to hang out on Letsrun 24/7, nor do I want to. I responded on this thread with my opinion based on my experiences. Feel free to look up some real data yourself. I'm not sure you have the ability to distinguish a reliable research article from something out of Newsweek, but give it a shot.

Your opinion means squat when someone has presented facts. Your opinion (which is based solely on conjecture and prejudice) means nothing when there are facts out there. Perhaps you're just too lazy to read up on the topic. Must be a product of the public school system.

What troubles me about the anti-homeschooling people is that after constantly hearing that "parents need to be more involved with their kid's education," and then taking steps to do so, they are still bashed as not being qualified, or they'll wind up with "quirky," "weird," nerdy" children. On example of a home-schooled kid that may make you realise just how well homeschooling works is Teresa McWalters. An amazing young woman who was a regular at the NCAA national level. Graduated from Stanford and is in grad school back east.

Joie, until you present your "facts," be quiet. You don't know what you're talking about. Quite honestly, the contact I've had with home-schooled kids has been nothing but pleasant. The kids I know can hold conversations with people of all ages, ethnicity and background. They are active in their communities. They are intelligent, sociable and forward thinking. Funny thing is that the evidence available does support this opinion.

Joie de vivre wrote:

not Hunh wrote:

When I use Google I often get links to databases that house peer-reviewed journals such as Science Direct, JSTOR, or Springer Link. If these aren't the most reputable or current studies, then what are?

Mr. and Mrs. Huhn, if you are not paying for the service, either through a subscription to the journal, or through tuition dollars at your local university, then it's unlikely you are getting current research.

So all you can do is dribble FUD about "unreliable research" without actually refuting any of it or posting any research to contradict it. Typical.

Did a homeschooler "screw up the curve" on one of your finals, then, when you tried to beat them up for it, dispatch you with the skills they learned taking karate or boxing while you were learning how to put a condom on a banana?

For the record, I'm a graduate of a public high school, and I'm not proud of it.

Moniker Huhn,

I'm guessing you would let this argument go on all night if you could. I don't have all night, or even 5 more minutes. I feel confident about my statements. They are based on years of professional experience and research, not Google. So I'll just respectfully disagree at this point.

Yes, I am a proud product of public schools, along with every doctor, attorney, and university professor I know. And this little tidbit will amaze you. No one ever tried to steal my lunch money.

Joie de vivre wrote:

Yes, I am a proud product of public schools, along with every doctor, attorney, and university professor I know. And this little tidbit will amaze you. No one ever tried to steal my lunch money.

Anecdotal evidence? For shame!

It seems that many people on here have a very negative opinion about homeschooling your children. I can't conclude why because I think it is a wonderful idea, at least early on.

Let me tell you my story:

My father worked at a very respectable job and made enough money for my family of five to live quite comfortably. My mother took care of the house, bought groceries, etc. Now, my mother is not a very smart lady but she is very passionate about what she does and she decided to homeschool me.

I was homeschooled from Kindergarten to the third grade. At that point I was sent to school in order for me to get some interaction with children. During the third grade at public school I made a couple of friends and excelled academically. I was then homeschooled in the fourth and fifth grades in order to continue learning at an excelled rate and I had fun hanging out with the friends I had made in third grade. Then in sixth grade I was again put in public school to garner friendships. At the end of the sixth grade year my mother considered homeschooling me again but decided that it was too much for her to teach and she would not be smart enough to do me justice.

Long story short, I continued on up through middle school and eventually progressed into high school. I graduated with a 4.1 unweighted GPA which was good for 4th in my class and also scored a 1560 on the SAT. I then moved on to a highly respectable school in the ACC and graduated at the top of my class.

I have always been able to maintain a reasonable running career as well with a PR of 1:51 in the 800m at the collegiate level.

I felt compelled to share my story of a good turnout to homeschooling as from what I have read it seems homeschooling has a poor reputation.

[quote]Hunh wrote:

Wow. Bitter much?

"Bitter and miserable de vivre" would be more appropriate.

Some people just can't accept that different systems work for different people.

I have to agree!! I attended private school, btw... I do feel like a lot of my elementary through hs years were wasted during a time when I was especially eager to learn. Now, I know this is not the case for all teachers, but I do know of some teachers who go into education because it's an "easy major." I actually had teachers tell me I was putting too much pressure on myself, and many of the teachers favored those students who goofed off in class (while they considered hard-working, driven students as a bit "weird"). Again, this is an overgeneralization (because there are many teachers in the profession for the right reasons), but, even in my graduating class, the ones who tended to not be the best students in the world, were the ones who decided to go into teaching. I think I am definitely a stronger person because of the experience---pretty much nothing gets to me anymore, because I've developed a thick skin from being around some not-so-nice, dare I say "spoiled 'nouveau riche' children." Just some more thoughts on the subject....

Wow, Blowhard is that you again? I thought you said you were the one who was miserable. Remember?

BTW, if there was any solid evidence that home schooling was in the best interest of kids I would be doing it with my own. I have no problem with catering to the individual needs of different learners, that's what my job is all about, I just don't believe that is what MOST homeschooled kids are getting.

Strange Love wrote:

stud of studs wrote:

I was at Disneyland about two years ago, and there was a huge group of home schooled kids and parents there that day as well. I have never, ever, been around a group of people who lacked as many social or personal skills as those kids and their parents. It was like land of the introvert retards.

I was at Walmart the other day and there was a couple of families there who had public school kids. I have never, ever been around a group of kids who lacked as many social or personal (not to mention hygiene) skills as those kids and parents. It was like a land retarded introverts.

Did that group all wear the exact same shirts and shorts, scream out songs making sure the entire park heard them, and make loud reference after reference to being public schoolers? I doubt it, but that is exactly what the home schoolers did.

When someone stood up from a seat to take a picture did the public schooler take the persons belongings and throw them on the ground so they could sit, or cut in front of about 50 people because they didn't want to wait in line? No? Well the home schoolers did.