masters fattie wrote:
did AlSal ever do well in a race he wasn't the dominating favorite and/or expected to win?
His 3 NYC titles he was always the big favorite, his closest was when Gomez hung around for 18-20 miles, and despite the best that Beardsley gave him that day in Boston, it wasn't enough. He never beat won a race that had a deep field or a better racer, hell Henry beat him off a bar stool a week or 2 before Boston..
AlSal ran fast, but didn't race well, sounds like a bit of Oregon tradition
You are revealing your lack of understanding. You say he didn't "do well", you say he didn't "race well" ... think of the people who beat him?
Just off the top of my head:
'78 NCAA's: Rono had three titles but folded. Salazar won and this was in an era when just he and Virgin won titles ... the rest went to world class foriegners.
summer of '80: 3rd in the 10k trials. 13:23 / 27:49 in Europe. Then has an injury ... but puts like 10 weeks of decent training together and wins NYC. This was the fastest marathon debut in history.
He won TAC XC Championships.
He ran 13:15, 13:11 / 27:30, 27:25 plus some more in '82. Beaten by Rono, Mamede, Koech, and probably two other people. All of them were either just better or faster finishers OR BOTH.
He was 2nd and 4th at WCCC ... I suppose you feel he was a bad racer because he didn't win these races?
I guess I look at his career this way:
Raced the roads -- but in events with the highest level/depth of competition: Falmouth (3X), World class 10ks, NYCM, Boston, Rotterdam M, Fukuoka M. Course records everywhere and NB's on the road 10k's. You are kind of an idiot if you think that he lost the ones he lost because of mental problems.
He raced XC: He was State Champion, He won NCAA's, He won TAC Champs, can't remember if he won the World's Trials, but he must have? Do you consider those fields to be weak? He was 2nd and 4th at World's. I suppose you feel that was underacheiving?
He raced the track: 13:11/27:25 AR's ... He won the TAC Champs, Not sure if he ever won NCAA's as he had WR holders to deal with in college. Kimobwa, Rono, Nyambui, Motschwarateu, should I go on? I think Maree and Nenow beat his AR's fairly soon, but how many runners held the AR for the 5k/10k/marathon? I suppose he should have won all those races like Pre did? Wait, Pre didn't win in Europe much. Well, like BK and Twill did? Wait, T-will barely raced in Europe compared to Salazar.
He raced indoors: 2 miles, 3k's, 5k's. I think he has the second fastest 5k for Americans. Again, beaten by Nyambui, Nyambui, the guy who has run 3:54y and 2:09. Also, 7-time track winner at NCAA's.
While I am thinking about it: your dig at Oregon is unwarranted. When Salazar ran his track AR's he came after a 13:14 by McChesney, a 13:12 by Centrowitz and the AR for the 3k was 7:37 by Chapa until Scott beat it. So I would have to check the timeline, but I think an Oregon alum would have had the 3k, 5k, 10k and marathon AR's all at once.
Would that count for anything if they didn't win the races?
Or if they didn't win over a deep field?
Or if they didn't win over a better runner?
He lost some races just because people were better, but some of them he lost because of his 54-sec sprint speed. A lot has been made of Rono being 15 lbs overweight and beating Salazar. But however out of shape he might have been he still ran 27:29 ... a time that was not bettered in history by anyone but Lopes and Mamede and Rono himself up to that point. As great as Rono was (and he had about 10 sub-28:00's) I think he ran faster than that "off the bar stool" race just once.
