Let me explain why you guys are morons
you say bekele can barely break 50 in the 400.
yet bekele is better than geb
geb not only ran about 3:31 for 1500m but was also said to unofficially run a 1:44 time trial in the 800m
which means bekele should be able to run equally or better than geb in those events
which means even if he only could run a 1:44 in the 800m, his average split would be 52. and in that case, his all out 400m time should be in the 47-48 range
i rest my case morons
gunnerx wrote:
Let me explain why you guys are morons
you say bekele can barely break 50 in the 400.
yet bekele is better than geb
geb not only ran about 3:31 for 1500m but was also said to unofficially run a 1:44 time trial in the 800m
which means bekele should be able to run equally or better than geb in those events
which means even if he only could run a 1:44 in the 800m, his average split would be 52. and in that case, his all out 400m time should be in the 47-48 range
i rest my case morons
i guess you don;t know the real difference between the speed/power events and the speed endurance events.
Bekele could run in the 49s, trained up moderately he might even break 49 just and more the likely would run 50 point at any time other than his peak.
Just to see how your analysis is - what do you think Mottram can run over 400m out of blocks?
gunnerx wrote:
Let me explain why you guys are morons
you say bekele can barely break 50 in the 400.
yet bekele is better than geb
geb not only ran about 3:31 for 1500m but was also said to unofficially run a 1:44 time trial in the 800m
which means bekele should be able to run equally or better than geb in those events
which means even if he only could run a 1:44 in the 800m, his average split would be 52. and in that case, his all out 400m time should be in the 47-48 range
i rest my case morons
Good thing you rested your case, because it was wrong.
Here's the thing: Geb ran a 3:31, and supposedly a 1:44. Supposedly. Either way, we have world class coaches estimating he could run 49 point.
Now Bekele: yes, he is faster than Geb in the 5K and 10K (by very small amounts). However, Geb is faster in the shorter distances. Bekele's 1500 is slower, and he ran his PR outdoors while Geb ran his 3:31 indoors. And neither has raced an 800. How does that come out to a 47 when Geb tops out at 49?
This debate pops up every month on letsrun, and there's always a few people who seem to think that Bekele is a 46 or 47 guy. We have guys like Renato Canova saying that these guys top out at 49-50. I'll trust him over gunnerx any day of the week.
Seb Coe had a 400m p.r. of 46.9, and he actually worked on obtaining that. Considering Seb Coe could run the 800m in 1:41, and he wasn't nearly as good as Bekele in the longer events, I wouldn't think that Bekele could run any faster than 48.
Didn't Steve Cram supposedly top out at like 48.low for the 400? And he has 1:42.8, and 3:46 to his name, both out of Bekele's reach. Even if Bekele CAN run 1:44, of which I am a bit skeptical, I can't see him being faster than Cram, who was better in the shorter distance events, while Bekele is better in the longer. I would be surprised if he can run under 49 seconds for the 400. Under 48.5 would stun me.
slow twitch rocks wrote:
Didn't Steve Cram supposedly top out at like 48.low for the 400? And he has 1:42.8, and 3:46 to his name, both out of Bekele's reach. Even if Bekele CAN run 1:44, of which I am a bit skeptical, I can't see him being faster than Cram, who was better in the shorter distance events, while Bekele is better in the longer. I would be surprised if he can run under 49 seconds for the 400. Under 48.5 would stun me.
seriously, these people are fools.
I've heard this mentioned a few times, Bekele would be strapped to run much faster than 48.9. He just doesn't have the build, or FT% to go faster. In the 800, his endurance could take him to 1:46 flat, but again his build and FT% are going to make going that much faster difficult.
The shortest event Bekele could rock in would be the 1k, maybe. Going through in 1:47, he could probably give a 28 flat. His strength would be in his ability to catch a lot of people in the final 100 of a k. But he wouldn't be anywhere near a WR and probably couldn't even challenge the top 3 guys in any given year.
This same situation applies pretty much to the 15 and mile, and even though he could put down a sub 3:30 under amazing conditions, and a 3:45, and even with his ability to catch people the last 100, he still wouldn't challenge the very best in the event during any given year.
Only at 3k and above does his endurance come to bear. That is why he can close 5k's and 10k's in 52. Even with his speed, which is incredible for someone so small and likely with high ST%, he could not break 49 very easily at all. If he focused on it for a year, 48.9 is the best he could achieve. 16 year old Boys in Mississippi and Texas could dust him, and Sanya Richards would be on his tail the whole way.
If anything Bekele should be an example of what good training can for anyone of any Muscle type %. Pretty much anyone who hopes to be anything in distance running needs to have the ability to break 50, unless they plan on focusing on the marathon. Even then, they have to be able to hit 52-53.
Just look at how many 175-200 pound decathletes can run well under 50 seconds for the 400m. And some of you guys don't think Bekele would absolutely SMASH 50 seconds? I'm calling 47.5 standing start, 48-flat out of blocks.
You talk as if being 175-200lbs is a bad thing for a 400m athlete?
Michael Johnson was 6'1', 175lbs.
LaShawn Merrit, 6'2', 182lbs
Kerron Clement, 6'2', 184lbs
POWER, POWER, POWER, POWER, POWER, POWER.
Repeat after me: "The 400m is not a distance race. It is a sprint determined by speed and power. Distance runners lack in speed and power, this is why they run distance."
Alan
Ask this:
Why, if Bekele (and the Ethiopians for that matter), are all such speedsters with supposedly 46-47 speed, that none of them ever compete, let alone medal (or even make a final) in the 800m?
If Bekele could run 47, then cruising a 51, and then putting a final lap 51 should be simple, right? A 1:42 would easily win the past 3 Olympics. SO why doesn't he do it?
The answer is he tops out at 49-mid (as Canova and the other coaches have stated). That will get him a 1:46 and 3:33, but it won't get him on the podium. The fact is he can tap into his power at the end of a tough race, and hence he looks (and is) so dominating in the 5 and 10k.
Having watched guys like Kevin Sullivan for years, I would bet big money with his 3:31 PB, that never race faster tahan 49 flat, and I know his PB in the 800m was 1:47. The fact is his "speed endurance" is amazing, not his speed. and that is what is confusing all these Bekele-lovers.
think about this wrote:
Just look at how many 175-200 pound decathletes can run well under 50 seconds for the 400m. And some of you guys don't think Bekele would absolutely SMASH 50 seconds? I'm calling 47.5 standing start, 48-flat out of blocks.
That's because they are POWERFUL.
Bekele would top out at 48 and that's pushing it. I don't even think he could break 1:46 for 800m without some specific training.
48.86
I know it is only marginally relevant since Coe was a middle distance guy, but Coe ran a :46.8 in an open 400m once. I can't think Bekele would be too far off that. Granted, Coe was a miler who also ran a workman-like 5k and Bekele a 5k/10k specialist, but what a 5k/10k guy he is!
Bekele is such an arrogant jerk. He just doesn't have time for us little guys. If he had any decency at all, he would have made a letsrun account and told us how fast he can run a 400 by now.
13.11 110m hurdles.
2.21 high jump.
adc wrote:
If Bekele can run the last 400 of the 10000 in 52 seconds, how fast could he run an open 400, from blocks?
400 Yards? Meters? Feet? Inches?? Please clarify.
Runningart2004 wrote:
Repeat after me: "The 400m is not a distance race. It is a sprint determined by speed and power. Distance runners lack in speed and power, this is why they run distance."
Repeat after me: "Everybody knows your name is Alan."
Furthermore, I think the point is that decathletes don't even focus on the 400 and can break 50 seconds. And I'm sorry, but you cannot compare the likes of Johnson to a decathlete like Pappas - the latter hardly the picture of POWER, POWER, and more POWER!
I think Runningart2004 is probably the best poster on LetsRun. Seriously...good, consistent posting.
Brian wrote:
I know it is only marginally relevant since Coe was a middle distance guy, but Coe ran a :46.8 in an open 400m once. I can't think Bekele would be too far off that. Granted, Coe was a miler who also ran a workman-like 5k and Bekele a 5k/10k specialist, but what a 5k/10k guy he is!
It hurts my head to think about how you could have come to this conclusion. Coe, history's first sub-1:43 and 1:42 guy, having a comparable 400m PR to Bekele?
If Bekele had the raw speed that some of you are according him with the 26:17 strength, El Guerrouj would no longer hold the WRs for the 1500m or mile.
Jeremy Wariner being one of the smaller 400M and the fastest alive today.(43.45)
according to IAAF)
height: 1.88 cm (74 in)
weight: 67.00 kg (147 lbs)
Bekele
Height 5'5" (166 cm)
Weight 121 lbs (55 kg)
Bekele's Fastest 400M spilt is 52.28, and from the blocks, even with a trained start, would lack the strength needed to really propell him to top speed quick enough to acutally benefit him more than a 63 second spilt.
His fastest 100M was an 11.XX and 200M of 24XX, besides even if Bekele were to train and hit a 46-47 400M his 5K/10K times would suffer by great lengths.
I am betting Bekele doesn't know his 400m pr. When you here stories about elite atheletes with really bad lower distance PRs you have to check when they were run. A lot of time things like 400m prs/800m prs are coming from junior races or events early in the year when they are not in peak shape.
It is also possible that Bekele could be really fast over 400m but unable to run a great 800m if he wasn't as good as handling the oxygen debt (maybe he can only do 18mmol instead of 22mmole).